Help with telephone problem......Please!!

Andycobgolf · 10 Aug 2011

I had a 'Open Reach' master socket fitted by BT earlier in the year.
Everything has been perfect until 2 days ago.Phones/broadband stopped working. First thing was I removed the lower frontplate of the MS and plugged straight into the (inner) socket...everything perfect.Plug back in frontplate..nothing...everything dead. I have now replaced the frontplate...still as before.I have 3 'extension sockets' around the house hard wired, ie there are 2 wires inside the frontplate connected to terminals..these are still ok.Is it possible that if something went wrong with one of the extension sockets dotted around the house that this would render everything dead as im seeing. (Note the first we knew about this was when the router packed up ...which is connected to one of the extension sockets rather than the MS) I don't understand what else it could be as none of the actual wiring/ sockets have been touched......Help!!!

Paul_C · 10 Aug 2011

A short circuit on the extension wiring will result in exactly the symptoms you describe. First, if you haven't done so already, unplug everything from the extension jacks to eliminate the possibility of it being a faulty telephone or other device.

If the problem is still there, you'll need to narrow down on which part of the wiring the fault lies. If your extension jacks are each wired individually back to the master (i.e. you have multiple cables connected to the back of the lower plate), then you can connect them one at a time until you find the faulty one. If you just have a single cable which runs to the first extension jack, then continues from there to the second, and so on, you can disconnect at each jack in turn to find which section is at fault.

Andycobgolf · 10 Aug 2011

Thanks for that Paul. I have 2 'extension' wires on back of face plate (red and blue I think?)...but whatever the case it is 2 separate wires. So if one of the sockets has become faulty (short circuited) then that could be it? Is there an easy way to check this (I have a feeling there may not be!) or should I just replace all the sockets (couple of quid each roughly)

Paul_C · 10 Aug 2011

Andycobgolf said:
Thanks for that Paul. I have 2 'extension' wires on back of face plate (red and blue I think?)...but whatever the case it is 2 separate wires.

I take it from that you mean two wires actually connected to the back of the plate (should be to terminals marked 2 & 5), but that they are from one cable? In that case all your extension jacks will be running from this one cable - They may be "daisy chained" (i.e. one to the next, to the next), or there might be a junction somewhere where the wiring splits to go to each jack.

Are the wires on the extension cable at the master striped? (blue/white & orange/white). Your description of red & blue sounds as though it might be older cable, which had four solid colors: blue, orange, green, brown.

So if one of the sockets has become faulty (short circuited) then that could be it? Is there an easy way to check this (I have a feeling there may not be!) or should I just replace all the sockets (couple of quid each roughly)

It could be at a jack, but it's likely that it's a fault on the actual cable somewhere. You really need to split the extension wiring to narrow down on which section the fault lies.

Andycobgolf · 10 Aug 2011

Hi the 2 wires to the face plate are not striped. If I was to disconnect these 2 wires from the face plate could I then screw it back to the wall and plug into it as normal? I may not really need to use any extensions.Currently its hanging off the wall as the phone only works when plugged into the inner socket, and it looks very untidy!

Paul_C · 10 Aug 2011

Andycobgolf said:
Hi the 2 wires to the face plate are not striped.

It does sound as though your "red & blue" wires are actually the old orange & blue, which were the colors normally used to carry the line with this older wiring scheme (if you look carefully, you'll probably find the green and brown cut back or coiled up). This type of cable was generally installed up until the early 1980's.

If you look at the wiring at your extension jacks, you might get a clue as to the wiring arrangements depending upon whether you see the same cable there or the newer blue/white & orange/white paired type.

If I was to disconnect these 2 wires from the face plate could I then screw it back to the wall and plug into it as normal?

Yes, so long as the fault is not in the faceplate itself (which you said you've already replaced), that would leave the phone plugged into the master working and you could sort out the extension fault at your leisure.

Andycobgolf · 10 Aug 2011

Sorry Paul, you'll regret giving me advice soon....firstly the 'old wiring thing' sounds about right as I seem to remember the BT guy saying something about that when he installed the master socket (back in April).
Ok so I disconnect the wires and the phone works fine (plugged into front of MS). If I then proceed to disconnect the extensions 1 at a time until the phone works in the MS, would this help me work out which is the faulty socket/wiring?? Also if the extensions are 'daisy-chained' are the equivalent in and out wires terminated on the same connection?? Finally(!) I did notice at least one of my 'extension sockets' had some sort of resistor inside....is this correct?? Note these were here when I moved in so if not I'm not taking the blame!! Thanks once again for all you help...

Paul_C · 10 Aug 2011

Andycobgolf said:
Ok so I disconnect the wires and the phone works fine (plugged into front of MS). If I then proceed to disconnect the extensions 1 at a time until the phone works in the MS, would this help me work out which is the faulty socket/wiring??

Yes, when you disconnect the part of the wiring which is faulty, the phone connected at the master will work again.

Also if the extensions are 'daisy-chained' are the equivalent in and out wires terminated on the same connection??

Yes, you'll have the wires from the master jack connected to the terminals of the extension jack, then another set of wires connected to the same terminals for a cable which runs to the next extension jack, and so on. But it's quite possible to have a mixture of wiring, with some jacks daisy chained like that, others tapped from a junction box and so on.

Finally(!) I did notice at least one of my 'extension sockets' had some sort of resistor inside....is this correct??

Master jacks have extra components. If this is the first jack to which the cable from your new NTE connects, then it may well have been the original master jack for the installation, bearing in mind the age of the wiring and the recent addition of the NTE. I'm guessing that before you had that new NTE fitted there was probably just a junction box at that point.

It's not unusual to find extra master jacks fitted as extensions though.

Is there any chance of some photos of the wiring at the NTE and at each extension jack?

Andycobgolf · 10 Aug 2011

Yes I will try to take some tonight..... Thanks again!

bernardgreen · 10 Aug 2011

What sort of cable have you used for the internal wiring. ?

Is each wire a single strand of tinned copper or several thin strands. ?

Is the cable sheath round or flat ?

Red and blue wires suggests you may have flat flexible cable which will not make good connections with the IDC ( insulation displacement connection ) terminals in the sockets. It is NOT intended for fixed wiring.

Only single strand wire can be used in IDC terminals if reliable connections are needed.

Andycobgolf · 11 Aug 2011

Ok many thanks for all the help.I did take some pics...but in doing that I found the fault(!) It was actually the cable that went from the filter (connected to an extension socket) to the router. The cable was damaged and was causing the short.I replaced and everything perfect..in fact the actual telephone line is much clearer now. In future I will disconnect everything as it was this that helped me locate the fault.... Thanks again!!

Paul_C · 11 Aug 2011

Andycobgolf said:
It was actually the cable that went from the filter (connected to an extension socket) to the router.

As mentioned earlier, when looking for a shorted line, always unplug everything from the jacks first to eliminate the possibility of it being something like that.

Glad you're sorted now.

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Help with telephone problem......Please!!

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