Alternative to radiator can I use pipes?!

Billyedit · 9 Jan 2014

Hello. I have a bench seat running under 3 windows. About 2 meters across, it gets a very cold down draught from the windows. I would like to put a radiator in behind the back of the seat but there is only 40mm clearance before I hit the outside wall.

Instead of trying to fit a slim line radiator into this difficult space, would it be ok just to lay copper piping back and forwards into the 40mm space between the bench and wall.

Is there a way of controlling this set up, like with radiator valves ?

Thanks!
Will

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Tibbot · 9 Jan 2014

The pipes won't convect any heat. you may as well plug in a steam iron and sit it there.

Dan Robinson · 9 Jan 2014

Why not get a rad that is incorporated into a bench. Seen some quite funky ones over the years.

Billyedit · 10 Jan 2014

Yes, I'm trying to find a very slim radiator to form the back of the bench. The problem is the depth can't be more than the 40mm...

Thanks
Again
Will
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doitall · 10 Jan 2014

Why not look at skirting heating, plinth heaters or low colume rads to go under the seat.

Diyisfun · 10 Jan 2014

Tibbot said:
The pipes won't convect any heat. you may as well plug in a steam iron and sit it there.

There will be heat loss, which is what a radiator does.
The problem may be calculation how much pipe, but it will work & of course you can put a lock shield/trv on it.
Sounds like a good idea.
Lots of stuff here.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sou....0i22i30l5.0.0.0.8553...........0.AWuW715jrGk

hi1 · 10 Jan 2014

Plug the draughts

algas · 10 Jan 2014

Some years ago we installed a similar system under pews in a church but we used 2" barrel up sized from 22mm copper this worked well but you can get trench heaters Iv'e used before that were very good from a german firm kampmann, google them

ianmcd · 10 Jan 2014

I havent seen it for a long time but you used to get copper pipe heat emmitters commonly used in pubs to run beneath the seating and heat the room it was like lengths of copper pipe with aluminium convector fins on it, maybe someone else could supply you with a trade name for it, not sure if you still get it

SandyLyon · 10 Jan 2014

Pipe coils were quite common in years gone by in the M & E world, often used in school changing rooms etc, either at low level below the benches or run at high level around the room.

Quite often they would be fed by say 1" F & R pipe work and the coil pipe work would be increased to a larger diameter (say 3" dia).

In your case (I take it this will be supplementary heating and not the primary heating in this room) you could run 15mm flow with a WHV or TRV increase to 28mm, form the coil as per your drawing, reduce back to 15mm with a LSV and connect to the return.

Edit: Make some provision for venting the coil

If you know what temperature the water is running at you can work out the surface area of the pipe and get a good idea of what output you will get from the coil.

Onetap · 10 Jan 2014

SandyLyon said:
Pipe coils were quite common in years gone by in the M & E world, often used in school changing rooms etc, either at low level below the benches or run at high level around the room.

Whilst I was reading the answers above, it was slowly dawning on me that I was a dinosaur, since I'd used pipe coils in the distant past. I glad my species isn't quite extinct yet.

The copper pipes will work much as a towel rail bathroom radiator. The heat emission figures for uninsulated copper pipes are with them mounted in free air. You'll get more convection with the finned tubes.

There used to be a company (Thermalrad? or Copperrad??) who did finned tube radiators, the radiator was a metal cover, with grilles to cover the tubes.

And the heat will dry the wood out, it will warp and crack if it isn't thoroughly seasoned.

JBPHS · 10 Jan 2014

SandyLyon said:
Pipe coils were quite common in years gone by in the M & E world, often used in school changing rooms etc, either at low level below the benches or run at high level around the room.

Quite often they would be fed by say 1" F & R pipe work and the coil pipe work would be increased to a larger diameter (say 3" dia).

Agreed, also common in old churches, etc.

I've done similar recently to provide a small amount of heat inside a built-in wardrobe, with great results.

James.

Billyedit · 11 Jan 2014

Great thanks for the helpful suggestions. I've been looking at finned pipes that might give better performance? Though 3" would surely do it. And yes , it's not the main source of heat, just to counteract the down draught. I'm no plumber but when I get hold of one, I hope to work out what all the WHR and LSV means and put it in practice!
Thanks
Will

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Blagard · 12 Jan 2014

Billyedit said:
I hope to work out what all the WHR and LSV means and put it in practice!

WHV = Wheel Head Valve - Normal valve on the flow
LSV = Lock Shield Valve - Normal valve on the return

A pair of standard (not thermostatic) radiator valves usually the same body but with different plastic heads.

http://pegleryorkshire.co.uk/EN/Brands/Terrier/Domestic_Radiator_Valves

oilhead · 12 Jan 2014

3" pipe into a 40mm gap will not go.
I have used a run of 28mm to heat the front cabin of a boat an it worked reasonably well, including taking it through a small radiator in the toilet/shower room. There are plenty of tables to give heat loss from pipework that can be equated to radiator values. At the end of the day, surface area is really the governing factor.

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Alternative to radiator can I use pipes?!

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