Wiring in loft - safe or not?

StephenCatt · 6 Apr 2014

Hi Folks - I'm after some advice if anyone is willing... We're at the end of our extension which has been managed by our builder using his own contractors for electrics etc.. The building inspector has signed off on the completion certificate and electric certificate has also been issued. Poking my head up in the loft everything is a little messy (can live with this) but I've got concerns over some of the wiring up there - this supplies various GU10 light fittings, extractor fans, mirror heater, shaver sockets etc. etc.. It looks like it's been wired in using old ceiling light fittings, and I can see bare wires. Does anyone have any opinion on whether the pictures below look safe? I'm no electrician so have no idea whether it's normal to use these as junction boxes. The builder's told us it's fine but I've lost a bit of trust in him recently so would definitely appreciate second (or third!) opinions. I'm not trying to be mega picky, just need to know it's been done properly and it's safe. Obviously I don't want this causing problems in 10 years time if I come to sell the house either!

Thanks in advance!

Steve

Pic 1 - loft space

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Pic 2 - fitting I'm most worried about

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Pic 3 - underneath the fitting

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Pic 4/5 - another fitting and underneath

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Pic 6/7 - another one

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OwainDIYer · 6 Apr 2014

Completely unacceptable.

For a new build the roof space should not be that messy. The insulation is untidy which will derate its thermal performance. There is no excuse for rubbish and offcut materials to be left up there.

The extractor vents don't slope downwards continuously to vent and will accumulate condensation then mould.

Ceiling roses must not be used as junction boxes as the cover is removable without the use of a tool. (The exception is permitted when used as ceiling roses which are usually out of reach.)

Junction boxes and terminals must not be supported on the wiring. The JBs must be screwed to joists or otherwise supported.

Cables must be clipped to joists adjacent to JBs, or JBs with cable grips used to prevent cable being pulled out of JBs.

Cable outer sheathing must be taken into the JB and the coloured wire insulation must not be visible.

You have an unterminated cut off cable labelled 'mirror'

The whole installation is slipshod, gimcrack, shoddy, ramshackle, makeshift, mean, third-rate, inferior, unprofessional, lacking in good workmanship, and well below the standard reasonably to be expected of a competent electrician.

A builder doesn't have to be an electrician to recognise that such untidy work is unacceptable. If he accepts that standard, I'd start worrying about the rest of the job.

JohnW2 · 6 Apr 2014

Nothing much to add - as above, totally unacceptable, and one doesn't even need to be any sort of expert to realise that.

Kind Regards, John

sparkwright · 6 Apr 2014

It's a very poor job, and I doubt it's been done by a proper electrician.

Proper junction boxes should be used, secured to the joists, and all cables neatly clipped.

I wouldn't accept it, and wouldn't pay for it either until it's re-done.

It's not necessarily 'unsafe', but shoddy.

GaryGarden · 6 Apr 2014

Nothing in your pictures suggests that your house is about to go up in smoke but it is a very untidy job. Is some of the wiring from an older installation as in couple of pictures the old pre 1995 colours are evident?

Edit: Pre 70's green only earth in image 3

Gutterball · 6 Apr 2014

totally unacceptable get him back to do it correctly, or get a proper electrician and charge him for the remedial work. did he give you a certificate for the work?

sparkwright · 6 Apr 2014

GaryGarden said:
Nothing in your pictures suggests that your house is about to go up in smoke but it is a very untidy job. Is some of the wiring from an older installation as in couple of pictures the old pre 1995 colours are evident?

Edit: Pre 70's green only earth in image 3

Pre-2004-2006.

I suspect the wiring is shown in the original part of the house.

GaryGarden · 6 Apr 2014

sparkwright said:
GaryGarden said:

Nothing in your pictures suggests that your house is about to go up in smoke but it is a very untidy job. Is some of the wiring from an older installation as in couple of pictures the old pre 1995 colours are evident?

Edit: Pre 70's green only earth in image 3

Click to expand...

Pre-2004-2006.

I suspect the wiring is shown in the original part of the house.

Was thinking 2005

Which is still wrong as their was the transition period March 04 - March 06

JohnW2 · 6 Apr 2014

GaryGarden said:
Was thinking 2005 Which is still wrong as their was the transition period March 04 - March 06

Indeed - but, as you said in your afterthought, if that is plain green sleeving we can see,that comes from a much earlier era (unless some electrician was still using up some drums of the stuff a few decades later!)

Kind Regards, John

sparkwright · 6 Apr 2014

And to be really picky, plain green earth used until the end of 1977.

Sorry.

GaryGarden · 6 Apr 2014

sparkwright said:
And to be really picky, plain green earth used until the end of 1977.

Sorry.

Pre 1978 then, but it is still 36 years ago, come on you've got to give me that one.

krieghammer · 6 Apr 2014

Was the spark a DIYer? Very poor workmanship.

OwainDIYer · 7 Apr 2014

krieghammer said:
Was the spark a DIYer? Very poor workmanship.

Most DIYers have more pride in their work.

jeff the gasman · 7 Apr 2014

OwainDIYer said:
Completely unacceptable.

For a new build the roof space should not be that messy. The insulation is untidy which will derate its thermal performance. There is no excuse for rubbish and offcut materials to be left up there.

The extractor vents don't slope downwards continuously to vent and will accumulate condensation then mould.

Ceiling roses must not be used as junction boxes as the cover is removable without the use of a tool. (The exception is permitted when used as ceiling roses which are usually out of reach.)

Junction boxes and terminals must not be supported on the wiring. The JBs must be screwed to joists or otherwise supported.

Cables must be clipped to joists adjacent to JBs, or JBs with cable grips used to prevent cable being pulled out of JBs.

Cable outer sheathing must be taken into the JB and the coloured wire insulation must not be visible.

You have an unterminated cut off cable labelled 'mirror'

The whole installation is slipshod, gimcrack, shoddy, ramshackle, makeshift, mean, third-rate, inferior, unprofessional, lacking in good workmanship, and well below the standard reasonably to be expected of a competent electrician.

A builder doesn't have to be an electrician to recognise that such untidy work is unacceptable. If he accepts that standard, I'd start worrying about the rest of the job.

Take it you're not very impressed with that job Owain?

OwainDIYer · 7 Apr 2014

jeff the gasman said:
Take it you're not very impressed with that job Owain?

All it needs is some 3-core flex with the g/y used for live and it'll be fully NICEIC compliant

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Wiring in loft - safe or not?

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