Is a non-RCD freezer socket still acceptable?

Ric2013 · 24 Apr 2014

Hi there,

Have just had a Period Inspection and PATs done to a house I rent out.

Have been advised by the guy doing the inspection that it is no longer permitted to have a non-RCD Freezer circuit and I should change to an RCBO, but he seemed unsure.

The freezer socket is clearly labelled (with Dymo) FOR FRIDGE OR FREEZER ONLY and the tenants are aware of its proper use. The cable is run in surface conduit, (so the circuit itself does not need an RCD as far as I understand the regs). There is no way that socket would be used for anything else - the kitchen has more than enough normal sockets.

In the meantime, I got the sparkie to PAT the fridge/freezer (even though it belongs to the tenants) and it passed with flying colours.

Now waiting to hear back from the electrical firm with the full outcome and am wondering whether this is leading me up the garden path as far as extra work is concerned.

Also, money aside, I thought the whole point of having a freezer circuit was, in part, to have it unprotected.

Please could you help me with your knowledge of the rules, and on the 'need' for an unprotected socket?

Thank you!

EFLImpudence · 24 Apr 2014

Ric2013 said:
Have been advised by the guy doing the inspection that it is no longer permitted to have a non-RCD Freezer circuit and I should change to an RCBO, but he seemed unsure.

Not so.

The freezer socket is clearly labelled (with Dymo) FOR FRIDGE OR FREEZER ONLY and the tenants are aware of its proper use. The cable is run in surface conduit, (so the circuit itself does not need an RCD as far as I understand the regs). There is no way that socket would be used for anything else - the kitchen has more than enough normal sockets.

That is correct and how it should be.

Also, money aside, I thought the whole point of having a freezer circuit was, in part, to have it unprotected.

Yes, in a way.
The RCD would not be for the protection of the circuit or socket.
It is for the protection of people using it.

So, limited to a fridge will prevent people using it - for tools etc.

securespark · 24 Apr 2014

Part of the danger with people and sockets is that the sockets are often used with hand-held appliances which, when faulty can cause muscle spasm making it impossible to loose go of the appliance. The other danger is that they can be used to supply equipment for use outside the equipotential zone.

To comply with current standards, socket outlets rated or less require the protection of a 30mA RCD unless they are dedicated. One way of doing this, as EFLI rightly points out, is to label the socket only for the use of a certain appliance.

JohnW2 · 24 Apr 2014

Ric2013 said:
Also, money aside, I thought the whole point of having a freezer circuit was, in part, to have it unprotected.

It is - and as you have been told, provided that it is clearly constituted as a dedicated freezer socket (by labelling, like you already have) it is perfectly compliant with the regulations for it not to have RCD protection.

Even changing the circuit's MCB to an RCBO would partially undermine the point of having an unprotected freezer circuit - since RCBOs are not immune from ('unexplained') 'nuisance' trips.

Kind Regards, John

Astra99 · 24 Apr 2014

I am in agreement with everything that has been said, but sticking a label on a socket will not prevent Mr. Thick from using it with a badly maintained hand-held power tool which has no earth connected! Unfortunately, even though Mr. Thick is the culpable one, should he kill himself using that power tool on that socket, Mr. Landlord will be blamed! Cover your back, replace that socket with a blue 16A IEC60309 outlet, and tell the tenants to go to Toolstation or Screwfix to buy the appropriate plug.

flameport · 24 Apr 2014

The non-RCD socket outlet is permitted.

Having a non-RCD socket outlet just for a freezer is also pointless and serves no purpose at all.

JohnW2 · 24 Apr 2014

Astra99 said:
I am in agreement with everything that has been said, but sticking a label on a socket will not prevent Mr. Thick from using it with a badly maintained hand-held power tool which has no earth connected! Unfortunately, even though Mr. Thick is the culpable one, should he kill himself using that power tool on that socket, Mr. Landlord will be blamed! Cover your back, replace that socket with a blue 16A IEC60309 outlet, and tell the tenants to go to Toolstation or Screwfix to buy the appropriate plug.

I'm not sure Mr Thick is always that thick - he would probably knock up a lead to enable him to plug his power tool into Mr Landlord's 16A socket, and then Mr Landlord would probably still get blamed (for having an unprotected socket) when Thicky killed himself!

Of course, if it's the landlords freezer, it could be hard-wired into an SFCU, with no socket, hence eliminating the potential issue!

Kind Regards, John

Adam_151 · 24 Apr 2014

flameport said:
Having a non-RCD socket outlet just for a freezer is also pointless and serves no purpose at all.

I'd argue that it has some small advantages in avoiding RCD related defrosting when away on holiday. But given recalls on some brands for catching fire, I'd generally be happier with it on the RCD

Ric2013 · 24 Apr 2014

Thank you for your thoughtful and divergent comments.

While I see the Mr Thick point, he could also plug multiple electric heaters into a socket and damage it, and many other ways he could injure himself electrically and non-electrically that I could think of, were it not bedtime. Old type bayonet plugs, setting the water heating to 40°C so to breed legionnella etc..

Mr Thick could also wire his dangerous power tool onto a 16A plug (as John has pointed out), and, seeing as most caravans/campers and associated extension leads are used to using this, the socket is then more likely to be used outside the equipotential zone.

Last time I (semi-)understood the regs, they said such a socket was permitted. If the regs have changed, so will the wiring, but if I have to think of every possible way someone could injure himself if he tried, I would never be able to rent out a Victorian house! Of course, if there is no disadvantage to fitting an RCBO, that is fine - in fact I had them fitted to the light circuits two years ago of my own impetus - but that doesn't seem to be the case.

If the food goes bad and the tenants eat it, could it be my fault?

I can't spend all my life worrying about litigation, my only concern here is the regs, and what they say. If I get a class 4 raised on this, that is fine by me, but if the regs have not changed and I get a class 2, I'll know I'm being ripped off

Ric2013 · 24 Apr 2014

Having a non-RCD socket outlet just for a freezer is also pointless and serves no purpose at all.

Is there any reason an RCBO may trip except due to a fault on the circuit it serves? If so, I would agree, but why, in which case, has the installer bothered to fit this circuit as is?

JohnW2 · 24 Apr 2014

Ric2013 said:
Is there any reason an RCBO may trip except due to a fault on the circuit it serves? If so, I would agree, but why, in which case, has the installer bothered to fit this circuit as is?

Although (perhaps much) less common than with RCDs, RCBOs have been known to suffer from 'unexplained nuisance trips' - i.e. in the apparent absence of any fault.

BTW, in relation to one of the comments I made earlier, do I take it that the freezer will be the tenants, and not yours?

Kind Regards, John

JohnW2 · 24 Apr 2014

Ric2013 said:
Last time I (semi-)understood the regs, they said such a socket was permitted.

As you've been told, that's what the regs still say, provided that you can argue and demonstrate (e.g. by your labelling) that it is a 'dedicated freezer circuit'.

Ric2013 said:
I can't spend all my life worrying about litigation, my only concern here is the regs, and what they say. If I get a class 4 raised on this, that is fine by me, but if the regs have not changed and I get a class 2, I'll know I'm being ripped off

Code 4 is now dead. However, as above, if it is demonstrably a 'dedicated freezer circuit', it is fully compliant and shouldn't get any code.

Kind Regards, John

Ric2013 · 25 Apr 2014

Hi John,

Yes the freezer plugged into this circuit is the tenants' property (otherwise an FCU would be an obvious solution which is where I assume you are going with this).

Many thanks.

Have a good weekend all!

JohnW2 · 25 Apr 2014

Ric2013 said:
Hi John, Yes the freezer plugged into this circuit is the tenants' property (otherwise an FCU would be an obvious solution which is where I assume you are going with this).

I suspected as much and, yes, as I mentioned before, that (FCU) was 'where I was going'!

Kind Regards, John

bernardgreen · 26 Apr 2014

Adam_151 said:
But given recalls on some brands for catching fire, I'd generally be happier with it on the RCD

The RCD would only operate if the fault that was starting the fire involved earth leakage. As with an electric fire parts can get red hot and not trip an RCD or MCB A stalled motor can overheat and catch fire and the RCD will only operate if the fire creates a short to earthed metal work

diynot

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.

Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

Is a non-RCD freezer socket still acceptable?

Similar threads