Is this 3way switching without an intermediate?

jaylord79 · 23 Jul 2014

Hi, hopefully you guys will be able to clear this up for me. A friend is having to rewire the house he has just bought, I'm giving him a hand and his electrician has run all cables in and is happy for us to do second fix before he comes to sign it off. I have 2330 and regs just not part p or testing and inspection yet. I'm almost hoping I've not missed a simple trick here being shattered in evening but if I explain the switching for kitchen light I'm hoping someone could shed some light. The basics are this, there are two switches in the kitchen. One is a two gang and one is a three gang. The two gang has the feed from the kitchen light going to it and also a light out to conservatory. It was decided that a 3 core would be run for this from the kitchen light so as to achieve a neutral as access to conservatory is tricky. This switch seems fine for me to wire up, it also has a second 3 core going from this switch to the 3 gang switch also in the kitchen. The switches for this are: 1x1.5 twin and earth which switch two lights in an alcove within the kitchen, one 3core which is linked to the first switch in the kitchen and a third 3 core which goes to the front room 2 gang switch as they wanted to turn kitchen light off from front room.

It seems to me that the 3 gang switch in the kitchen is acting as an intermediate switch? Is this correct? So how do I go about connecting the two 3 cores into the switch itself?

Taylortwocities · 23 Jul 2014

So, really you have two way lighting with the loop-in at the 3-way switch. Yes?

If so this is not intermediate (the only time that you need that is if there are three or more switches operating the same light.

I dont have time for a pretty drawing, and it is not the best method, but using the wiring that you have got you are stuck with doing this:

Untitled

Taylortwocities
23 Jul 2014
1

EDIT. Pic should say 3 gang switch, not 3 way.

jaylord79 · 23 Jul 2014

Thanks.i don't know if I explained it great as it was late, but no there is a two gang with the feed from the kitchen light in, this then connects to the 3 gang switch via 3 core cable. Then a second 3 core cable comes out of the 3 gang switch to the front room so all 3 lights should operate the kitchen light? Does this make any more sense? Hope so as still knackered!

Cheers

Taylortwocities · 23 Jul 2014

OK, so the middle switch (3gang?) will need to be an intermediate. You may need to make a grid switch to do this.

This is how the wiring is done..

Untitled

Taylortwocities
23 Jul 2014
1

AndyPRK · 23 Jul 2014

or use the other method, which means one less joint in the right hand switch.

The differences are: (in right switch)

You connect the COM to COM
The feed live wire goes into L1 (as well as wire to other switch)
The light wire goes into L2 (as well as wire to other switch)

ericmark · 23 Jul 2014

shows standard two way

shows standard intermediate wiring. It is not 3 way the 2 way refers to switch type not wiring a fan control with three fan speeds would be three way and off.

So don't google for three way switching.

There is a method which borrows a line from another switch which is frowned on as it causes interference and can mess up any wireless items in the house.

Gutterball · 23 Jul 2014

In the US they call 2 way switching 3 way. This is because they count the terminals on the switch, 3 terminals = 3 way switching.

Taylortwocities · 23 Jul 2014

You might get the chance to call it 3 way, or MacMultiLighting after 18th September.

But right now its called 2-way or 3-way(ie needing an intermediate switch(es). That way nobody gets confused.

I thank you.

Gutterball · 24 Jul 2014

I was just pointing out that if the op had been searching goggle, he might have been confused by the different terminology.
And the sooner we go our own way and leave england behind the better.

bernardgreen · 24 Jul 2014

Gutterball said:
In the US they call 2 way switching 3 way. This is because they count the terminals on the switch, 3 terminals = 3 way switching.

Those colonials just want to be different, they are still sore about choosing 110 volts as their supply voltage and the amount of copper and aluminium it is costing them

They also use the Chicago system for operating a light from two switches.

http://handymanwire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/570232/chicago_style_3_way_switching

It is illegal but still found. A hang over from the old days when the contact separation in switches was large enough to prevent an arc from Live to Neutral being created when the switch was moved.

And calling the common terminal the "traveller" is so quaint.......

AndyPRK · 24 Jul 2014

Never heard of Chicago, but I see its basically the same as how car electric windows work.

AdrianUK · 24 Jul 2014

AndyPRK said:
Never heard of Chicago, but I see its basically the same as how car electric windows work.

Indeed. The other reason that it was used is that it allowed you to have a two way switched 'yard' light that could be operated from the house & the barn and also provide an outlet. in the barn all with just three wires between the two points

AdrianUK · 24 Jul 2014

bernardgreen said:
And calling the common terminal the "traveller" is so quaint.......

I was always taught 'strapper'

JohnW2 · 24 Jul 2014

bernardgreen said:
They also use the Chicago system for operating a light from two switches. (here) It is illegal but still found. A hang over from the old days when the contact separation in switches was large enough to prevent an arc from Live to Neutral being created when the switch was moved.

... but even in them-there 'old days' of large contact separation, the system had the interesting 'feature' of sometimes leaving both sides of the lamp/bulb 'live' when it was 'off'!

Kind Regards, John

AdrianUK · 24 Jul 2014

JohnW2 said:
bernardgreen said:

They also use the Chicago system for operating a light from two switches. (here) It is illegal but still found. A hang over from the old days when the contact separation in switches was large enough to prevent an arc from Live to Neutral being created when the switch was moved.

Click to expand...

... but even in them-there 'old days' of large contact separation, the system had the interesting 'feature' of sometimes leaving both sides of the lamp/bulb 'live' when it was 'off'!

Kind Regards, John

An even more interesting, when used in its native U S of A, the polarity applied to the thread of the ES lamp would flip between HOT & COLD depending upon which switch was operated ..... the thread of the lamp could be 'live' with the lamp extinguished .........

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Is this 3way switching without an intermediate?

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