Jobsworth

I would not replace the switches.
Nor me. ... It makes you wonder whats happening at the transitions from wall to ceiling etc.
Fair enough - but the same question for you as for RF, then! .... If it were (unprotected) T+E and you knew, or suspected, that it was not entirely within safe zones, would you again refuse to change the switches?

More generally, do you feel that you should not do any work on a circuit if you know, or suspect, that there is something non-compliant about the circuit, but you also know that the work you're being asked to do will leave the installation in no way any less safe than it was before you did the work?

Kind Regards, John
 
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I suppose the installer of replacement metal switches can hardly be held responsible for the wiring being unsheathed, and with a good earth present isn't making it any worse.

It's possible there will be unsheathed cables at the ceiling lights too - so presumably he won't want to fit any new light fittings.

It could be argued the electrician may not notice the wires are buried directly in the plaster, for all he may know they could have been in some sort of conduit.

Even though he does know.

As already said by Ban, grommets would certainly be needed here.

However, it does sound like it may be a cruddy installation, and the best advice has to be to get it checked and put right.
 
If I can't leave a circuit or the part of it I've worked on fully compliant with regs when I've finished my work then I walk away.

I'm not in the habit of doing favours and bodging non-compliant installations for the benifit of my customers. It WILL come back to bite you.

Am I going to risk my registration and my reputation, even my freedom just so you don't have to make your electrics safe? Am I heckers like.
 
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If I can't leave a circuit or the part of it I've worked on fully compliant with regs when I've finished my work then I walk away.

I'm not in the habit of doing favours and bodging non-compliant installations for the benifit of my customers. It WILL come back to bite you.

Am I going to risk my registration and my reputation, even my freedom just so you don't have to make your electrics safe? Am I heckers like.

Very commendable of course.

But just supposing there was a house with the switch wiring exactly as described. And one of the switches was broken. And the customer (a very old lady for arguments sake) wants the switch replaced (a plastic one will do) so she can see what she's doing.

What would be the right thing to do here?
 
Is it really worth risking your arse and all the hassle that goes with it for a few quid?

Going self employed has made me very hard nosed, and it's no bad thing IMO.
 
I would worry about the lady being in the dark.

And if the broken switch had exposed live parts, I would worry about that too.
 
Leave her table lamp switched on and the circuit breaker turned off. If she's old she'll have some candles in the pantry.
 
If I can't leave a circuit or the part of it I've worked on fully compliant with regs when I've finished my work then I walk away.
So you feel you can only replace a switch if the entire circuit is compliant with current regs?

As I asked before, if you knew or suspected that there was (unprotected) T+E which was not entirely within safe zones, would you replace a damaged switch, or would you leave it in a dangerous state?

Would you replace a damaged socket on a non-RCD-protected circuit, or would you leave it in a dangerous state?

Would you replace a damaged socket on a circuit which was protected by an all-circuits RCD, or would you leave it in a dangerous state?

Would you replace a damaged (plastic) switch or (plastic) ceiling rose if there were no CPC, or leave the damaged item in a dangerous state?

etc. ....
I'm not in the habit of doing favours and bodging non-compliant installations for the benifit of my customers. It WILL come back to bite you. ... Am I going to risk my registration and my reputation, even my freedom just so you don't have to make your electrics safe? Am I heckers like.
That's all fair enough, and very reasonable, but I'm not really suggesting that you should do any of that. Regs aren't retrospective, but, as above, do you feel that every aspect of a circuit you're working on has to be brought into compliance with current regs - since otherwise you would be 'bodging a non-compliant installation'?

Kind Regards, John
 
If I can't leave a circuit or the part of it I've worked on fully compliant with regs when I've finished my work then I walk away.
But if you are not responsible for the installation of the circuit then you aren't leaving it non-compliant.

If your position is that you will not replace accessories on any circuit which you could not certify complies with the regulations then does not logic and consistency lead you to the position that you can never replace any accessories because you can never be sure that the circuit complies?


I'm not in the habit of doing favours and bodging non-compliant installations for the benifit of my customers.

I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing, hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2011 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows.

If the work for which you have been responsible is changing an accessory, not installing the cables which connect to it, what non-compliant things are you bodging?


It WILL come back to bite you.
If you replace a socket on a 32A ring final, and unbeknown to you (and totally undetectable by testing) part of the circuit consists of 0.75mm² flex, or deviates from the safe zones, why will those things not come back to bite you?


Am I going to risk my registration and my reputation, even my freedom just so you don't have to make your electrics safe? Am I heckers like.
Your freedom?

Your freedom?

Really?

As in genuinely and reasonably and with just cause etc you really do believe that you could actually be imprisoned if you changed a light switch where the sheath of the T/E cable supplying it had been cut back a couple of cm too far?

I have to say that if that is what you really believe I struggle to see how you are applying any intelligence or rationality to your decision making.
 
I suppose the installer of replacement metal switches can hardly be held responsible for the wiring being unsheathed, and with a good earth present isn't making it any worse.
Exactly - that's what I said.
However, it does sound like it may be a cruddy installation, and the best advice has to be to get it checked and put right.
No-one is denying that. However, if (having been given the advice) the householder doesn't want it 'put right', would you refuse to change a (perhaps damaged and dangerous) switch (or whatever)?

Kind Regards, John
 
Is it really worth risking your a**e and all the hassle that goes with it for a few quid?
I can't be sure, but I would hope that if, heaven forbid, this little old lady got electrocuted because you'd refused to replace her damaged switch on the grounds that you didn't know if the cable connected to it complied with the regulations, that in the coroners court you would receive such a savaging that your reputation really would be destroyed.
 

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