Outside....inside?

Two part question. I'm getting a new kitchen fitted. The original was stuffed into an extension on the back of the original kitchen about 15 years ago. This has actually made rewiring for the new kitchen remarkably easy. Things like the cooker feed and some sockets already had the channels and cables in situ. Where I want to put the new appliances. Admittedly they were all trimmed flush so I've ripped out replaced and rough plastered.
It's like for like replacement so I'm guessing I shouldn't fall foul of any part p regs?
The second question is about a fused spur.
I've got one right where I want the switch. I've dropped the fronts of the spur and the adjacent socket. There's ring main through the socket and a short length going to the fused spur. So far so good. I want this switch for an extractor. The problem is the spur currently runs an outside light. And the cable rather than being chased into the wall disappears off into the cavity then reappears outside. Ideally I don't want to chisel anymore channels into the the wall. Is there a problem with taking the the light off. And just running the cable to the point outside the house corresponding to the extractor position and poking a hole from outside to in again. It appears to be regular grey sleeve twin and earth so I would be inclined to sheathe it in something a bit more weather resistant. I would have approximately 60cm/2 foot of cable on the outside wall.
Sorry it's so long winded for a first post
BTW I'm Alan. Keen diy,er. Professional life saver

acemelon said:

Ideally I don't want to chisel anymore channels into the the wall.

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Go on. Do it properly.

Is there a problem with taking the the light off. And just running the cable to the point outside the house corresponding to the extractor position and poking a hole from outside to in again. It appears to be regular grey sleeve twin and earth so I would be inclined to sheathe it in something a bit more weather resistant. I would have approximately 60cm/2 foot of cable on the outside wall.

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Mmmm. Seeing it's already there, you could but it's a bit naff and now is the best opportunity to make everything good.

//www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:walls

Fit a double pole FCU between the ring and the lamp so the lamp can be isolated ( Live and Neutral ). This will enable the ring to be used if the outside lamp is damaged or water logged and has tripped MCB and /or RCD.

So the part p is ok? And I can run the cable outside the house?
Win
How strict is the 300mm for the switches from the cooker? That just isn't going to happen
Ta

acemelon said:

How strict is the 300mm for the switches from the cooker? That just isn't going to happen
Ta

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300mm not a regulation, just a guide.

The REGULATION is that accessories (etc) must be suitable for the environment.

acemelon said:

It's like for like replacement so I'm guessing I shouldn't fall foul of any part p regs?

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Replacement (whether like for like or not) or new work makes no difference.

Part P applies to any work whatsoever on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter which operate at low or extra-low voltage and are—
(a) in or attached to a dwelling;
(b) in the common parts of a building serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts;
(c) in a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling; or
(d) in a garden or in or on land associated with a building where the electricity is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling.

And what it requires is that reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury.

So if you can do that then you won't fall foul of it.

Ideally I don't want to chisel anymore channels into the the wall

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You're having a new kitchen - surely you can fit a bit of replastering in?

acemelon said:

How strict is the 300mm for the switches from the cooker? That just isn't going to happen

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As TTC says, it's a guideline. But it exists, and is regarded as good practice, for a reason. If you ignore it and put electrical accessories so close to a cooker that they are at risk of damage, or people are at risk of injury if they use them, then it's hard to see how you have complied with Part P.

ban-all-sheds said:

Replacement (whether like for like or not) or new work makes no difference.

Part P applies to any work whatsoever on fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer’s side of the electricity supply meter which operate at low or extra-low voltage and are—
(a) in or attached to a dwelling;
(b) in the common parts of a building serving one or more dwellings, but excluding power supplies to lifts;
(c) in a building that receives its electricity from a source located within or shared with a dwelling; or
(d) in a garden or in or on land associated with a building where the electricity is from a source located within or shared with a dwelling.

And what it requires is that reasonable provision shall be made in the design and installation of electrical installations in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering the installations from fire or injury.

So if you can do that then you won't fall foul of it.

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Yep, all good. Happy with that. Straight runs. Future works will just need to go straight up or down to find them. I've even drawn a rough map (for the kitchen fitters)

ban-all-sheds said:

You're having a new kitchen - surely you can fit a bit of replastering in?

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Yep, and the plasterer is coming later this month. I just have very little time off work (NHS ODP) to do anymore prep.

ban-all-sheds said:

As TTC says, it's a guideline. But it exists, and is regarded as good practice, for a reason. If you ignore it and put electrical accessories so close to a cooker that they are at risk of damage, or people are at risk of injury if they use them, then it's hard to see how you have complied with Part P.

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There physically isn't enough space on that bit of wall to move it further away. I could put a fresh fused spur on the other side of the cooker but that would mean laying the spurred cable to the hood so that it crossed the 45a cooker cable at 90degrees. I'm assuming that's bad?

Thanks for the replies so far. It's all very informative

acemelon said:

Yep, all good. Happy with that. Straight runs.

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There is more to it than that. If all that mattered were straight runs then we could train electricians in the time it takes to learn how to use levels and plumb lines. Half a day?

Yep, and the plasterer is coming later this month. I just have very little time off work (NHS ODP) to do anymore prep.

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Well, as with so much in life (apart from maybe intimacy with your partner¹), if you don't have time to properly DIY then you pay someone to do it for you rather than bodge an unsatisfactory job.

There physically isn't enough space on that bit of wall to move it further away. I could put a fresh fused spur on the other side of the cooker

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Do that then.

but that would mean laying the spurred cable to the hood so that it crossed the 45a cooker cable at 90degrees. I'm assuming that's bad?

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No it's not.

Why would you assume it was?

//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:walls



¹ Disclaimer - your partner may disagree with this exception.

New fused spur laid in. I went out of the back of an existing socket. Into the garage. Down the wall and back in where I wanted the switch. Back into the garage and along the wall to about 40 inches from where I wanted it. Then I ran out of garage. 40 inches of chasing later and it's in. Ye gods that's a messy job !!!
Anyway I've not physically connected it to the donor socket.

New question...how does part p work. How do I get it checked? Who do I have to tell. An idiots guide please.
Thanks

acemelon said:

New question...how does part p work. How do I get it checked? Who do I have to tell. An idiots guide please.
Thanks

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Like many questions, the answer is in the WIKI see
//www.diynot.com/wiki/Electrics:Part-P

acemelon said:

New question...how does part p work.

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You've been told that. It 'works' by requiring you to do the work safely, making reasonable provision to protect persons from fire and injury. If you haven't done that, you have broken the law, and only you could tell us the answer to that question. If you have done that, you have complied with the law.

acemelon said:

How do I get it checked?

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Your only option is speak to an electrician. You probably haven't been able to undertake the tests which really should have been done, so you could ask the electrician to at least do those.

acemelon said:

Who do I have to tell.

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It sounds as if the work you have done is not 'notifiable' and, if that is the case, you don't need to tell anyone. If there had been (or is) a need, you are thinking about it far too late - when 'telling' is required, it has to happen before the work starts.

acemelon said:

An idiots guide please.

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I didn't say that

Kind Regards, John
Edit:typo corrected.

It would appear that either it's no problem or I've jumped the gun entirely depending how the regs are interpreted. I'm either a very bad man or there's no issues with what I've done.
On a practical level I trust my work.
Thanks for the advice.
I'll be off now

acemelon said:

It would appear that either it's no problem or I've jumped the gun entirely depending how the regs are interpreted. I'm either a very bad man or there's no issues with what I've done. On a practical level I trust my work.

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My understanding is that ll you have done is to replace things and extend/modify existing circuits and, assuming you are in England, that would definitely be non-notifiable.

As I implied, the ever-present problem for the vast majority of electrical DIYers is that they do not have the means and/or knowledge to undertake the tests which, strictly speaking, should be done. There is therefore always doubt as to whether, if such a person every found themselves in a Court (which is 'never' going to happen), they could theoretically have problems convincing the court that they had complied with the safety requirements of the law ('Part P') if the tests had not been done, no matter how well the work had been undertaken.

Kind Regards, John