Old chandelier wiring

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Groot

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Hi All,

I was wondering if you can help me identify the conductors in the flex of an old Dutch style chandelier I recently bought at a restoration yard. There's a red, black and brown wire. These wires are in turn connected to the individual socket wires in the body of the chandelier. It is an eight arm chandelier. 8 of the socket wires are connected to the black wire and 4 each are connected to the brown and red wires.

My question is, which wire is live and which is neutral. And is there an earth wire here?

Thanks in advance.

:confused:

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It looks like you have a feed from the black to one side of each lamp socket (one would hope that it goes to the thread on each one, with the expectation that it gets connected to neutral)

The red and black appear to each feed 50% of the lamp holders and being connected to the other side from the black (one would hope that this is the centre with the expectation that these are two switched lives.

There is no earth, despite the fact that the construction of the fitting clearly requires one be fitted.

The connections within the fitting have been made with US style wire nuts, and also twist joints (someone may have removed the wire nuts at some point leaving the conductors twisted) In addition the incomming flex looks a bit suspect insulation wise.

I would stress that you should not connect this fitting to a supply unless its restored into a condition where it is safe to do so.
 
Hi Adam,

Many thanks for the prompt reply. Assuming the incoming flex, and possibly also the white wires supplying the lamps, are replaced, the remaining thing to do is earth the fitting.

Could you advise how best to do this?

Thank you.
 
Is this for your own home?
Do you plan to remove it when you move?
Is the circuit RCD protected?
 
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From what I can make out, it's wired like that so you can have either half or all the lights on. You would need appropriate wiring and switching in your house for that function, which I doubt you have.

Anyway, how it is now is dangerous, and as said, it must not be used as it is.

You said it had been restored, but the wiring is awful.

As said, it needs an earth connection.

Did you disconnect the 'caps' from the those wires twisted together? In case you didn't, I must point out how dangerous that is.

Also, the long flex that goes to the ceiling looks knackered. It looks like rubber, doesn't provide an earth. It looks old. There needs to be a green and yellow wire in it to provide the earth.

Do not attempt to fit this light. Get it rewired by someone who knows what they are doing.
 
Thanks, Sparkwright,

It is destined for restoration, but certainly is not restored yet. It's knackered and awful at the moment, as you say. Where might I take it to get it overhauled?
 
Thinking laterally - how about fitting 12V bulbs and a transformer in the ceiling?

This has various issues, including the higher current and so increased risk of fire etc., but it might be better (and less illegal) than some of the alternatives.

The normal way to add an earth would be an "eyelet crimp terminal" (google it), fixed to the metalwork with a self-tapping screw or similar. But "if you need to ask, you shouldn't be considering doing it".

(Any idea where this was made, or in which country it was installed?)
 
endecotp said:
Thinking laterally - how about fitting 12V bulbs and a transformer in the ceiling? This has various issues, including the higher current and so increased risk of fire etc., but it might be better (and less illegal) than some of the alternatives.
Click to expand...
If one used LED bulbs/lamps, the current (hence fire risk) would probably be not a lot different that with 230V bulbs/lamps.
endecotp said:
The normal way to add an earth would be an "eyelet crimp terminal" (google it), fixed to the metalwork with a self-tapping screw or similar....
Click to expand...
It might actually be possible to find an eyelet crimp large enough to go under one of those existing nuts.
endecotp said:
...But "if you need to ask, you shouldn't be considering doing it".
Click to expand...
That is also very true.

Kind Regards, John
 
endecotp said:
(Any idea where this was made, or in which country it was installed?)
Click to expand...
USA looks likely. The use of wirenuts. An ungrounded power cord with red & black hot conductors and a grey or white neutral?

Groot - have you checked if you can actually get any bulbs which fit?
 
Hi,

I think the lamp-holders will have to be replaced in any case, but the current ones are SBC.
 
Just hang it as a NON-electrical pendant fitting for ornamental purposes - do NOT connect it to any circuit in this state. Better safe than sorry.
 
kai said:
Just hang it as a NON-electrical pendant fitting for ornamental purposes - do NOT connect it to any circuit in this state. Better safe than sorry.
Click to expand...
That's a bit defeatist. If, as appears to probably be the case, the OP is prepared to pay to have it 'electrically restored' by someone who knows what they are doing, there's no reason why it could not be turned into a perfectly safe and functional item.

Kind Regards, John
 
If them nuts are what they look like, standard 10mm nuts then thats easy rebuilt.
Im assuming you have the other bits of the fitting, the new 3 core flex would terminate within that round housing, you then have the choice,

Either connect the new flex earth to a 10mm earth tag fitted under one of the nuts, the tags are either solder on or screwed cable clamp.
Then use two single cores out to each of the holders joining in the housing with two insulated connecter blocks L,N only
This way you can fit either brass or plastic lampholders
Or
Not using an earth tag and
use 3 single cores to each of the holders and earth in each lampholder
join the wires in the housing with three insulated connecter blocks L,N and E
This way requires brass holders which have built in earth terminals

The holders may also be 10mm, if not you may need 1/2 inch holders and use the apropriate thread reducer

Parts would cost about £50 and aprox 3hours work
 
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