Collapsed Drain? Subsidance? How bad? (Photo's)

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Hi all,

I've recently (3 weeks ago) bought a new house. It's a 1993 build, that had a conservatory extension a few years later, '97 I think.

Anyway, down one side of the house/conservatory, I've noticed that the paving slabs have sunked a little (perhaps about 2" at the 'deepest' point).

See photo's below. The wall on the left is the garden wall, on the other side is the pavement & public road. The wall on the right is the conservatory, and the side of the house.

20140831_182117_zpsc6877443.jpg


20140831_182130_zpse6df8cdb.jpg


Noticing this had been niggling at me a little, so today I cleared away all the rubbish that had been there for a closer looked. Quite concerned to find that, the conservatory has clearly dropped perhaps 4-5mm, as is evident by the photo's below....

20140831_182103_zpsb033b2c9.jpg
(house on left, conservatory on right above)

20140831_182053_zps4e008378.jpg
above, notice the window cill inside and out

20140831_182117_zpsc6877443.jpg
above, best angle I can get of the 'drop'. Note that by lifting some of the loose slabs, I can see that some ground has subsided beneath the slabs.

Suspecting that perhaps one of the drain pipes in the ground has collapsed, I've had a look under the drain cover you can see in the photos. There is no obvious damage (not even cracking) in there. Water is still flowing out from the main/kitchen pipe. But I haven't yet tested flow from the gutter downpipe you can see running down the wall.

To be honest I'm not sure what to do next. Do I get a specialist out to investigate, and wait for the bad news? Or do I repoint the brickwork, seal the inside and hope nothing worsens. I'll be relaying the paving down the side anyway.

I cant see any cracks anywhere in the main structure of the house. The mortgage surveyor (only a basic survey) didn't pick this up. The sellers said nothing, nor did estate agent. I can't image that the previous owner (lived in the house since new) did not notice.

What should I do? If the pipe from the gutter drain has collapsed, can I simply dig it out and replace? Do I risk the whole house coming down?

Really grateful for anyone's help, really quite worried right now. All of my eggs are in this basket as such.

Cheers,

Tom
 
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The slabs have probably dipped because of a poor substrate, laid by the original developers, in large developments the external works are always rushed and corners cut.

The conservatory foundation was likely built on made-up ground so has probably just sunk a bit.

Keep an eye on the conservatory and see its dropped any more in a years time. Under no circumstances whatsover should you mention any of this to your insurance company.

A home-buyers survey is not worth the paper its written on btw.

I wish that was I had to worry about in my house.
 
With all due respect to the last post, freddies.

1/. Get back to the surveyor who inspected your new home and seek his advices, do this in a phone call soon as and backed up by a letter.

2/. A little known "INSURANCE AGREEMENT" states that if Subsidence is found to be causing a problem within about a month of you taking out the Insurance then the PREVIOUS INSURER picks up the cost of repair, and as an aside the Insurer will begin proceedings for recovery of costs from the Surveyor who looked at your new home.

3/. This agreement also states that over time the Subsidence agreement will split the cost of the repair from about day 28 after purchase to day 365 after purchase the cost of Subsidence repair will be shared 50/ 50 between the insurers, that is your present insurer and the previous owners insurer.

4/. Your Surveyor could claim that he could not see the paving slabs because of the debris stored out there, BUT? there are clear indications in your posted photos that there is a large difference in the bed joints between the main house wall and the extension, any "competent" Surveyor should have picked up on this.

5/. You have seen the posts, that say do NOT contact your insurer, the above is a possible way ahead for you BUT it will mean you contacting your present insurer, not my call, lets see what other posts pop up here, I am sitting on the fence, I work as a Subsidence surveyor for a multi-national loss Adjuster.

Bluntly, your call and preference.

Ken
 
Interesting post , Ken - but I`d still go with Freddy . As to the drain - that`s plastic pipe or hepsleve and both will be ok : If it was the house dropping/cracking I`d go with Ken - but the conservatory taking his route will possibly cost more in the long term via insurance premiums - than rebuilding the damned thing - or am I just paranoid ;)
 
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Phone around for a cctv drain survey, tell them its only a short distance.
You could be charged as little as £150.

Andy
 
CCTV survey will give you peace of mind, but it is extremely unlikely there will be any problem with drains of that vintage. Most likely, as said, poor quality foundations for both path and conservatory, especially if the ground has been 'made up' around the house once built then then the path laid.

Could also be due to the long dry summer we've had this year, soils, especially clays, dry out and shrink, causing movement. We're experiencing a lot of burst cast iron water mains in this area recently, due to ground movement!
 
Just to add a little,what freedysmercurytwin :confused: said re insurance.

Never contact your insurance company and mention subsidence or any expensive repairs until you have enough evidence/information or professional reports to back up your claim.

cos as soon as you contact your insurance company they have a responsibility to protect their company/shareholders etc and what ever you say to them is recorded and silently typed in to their system to lessen future claims forever.

For example your name,post code,email,phone number,employer and much more could be recorded and a flag inserted = bad risk.

Hey,just enjoy your new house.

Best regards. James.
 
jamesnewhere, hi

A few things as regards the "dreaded insurance Companies" and what is perceived as to what they "appear to get up to"

in no particular order. Insurers, all of them, have to set the premiums at a commensurate level to what is called the "risk" this is the function of the Underwriter, it is them that tell the insurer what premium to set.

All insurers keep records of what funds [as far as they are concerned] are expended in which areas, this is where Post Codes enter the equation. And the underwriters again take over, they calculate the income from the premiums against the cost of paying out on a claim or claims in a particular Post Code for the various claims intimated [claims actually made by Policy Holders.

Now things can get complex? because historically and even now a jack the lad insures his property with two insurers, but does not advise the different insurers he has a second Insurance on the Property.
A [generally] contrived event occurs the easiest one is to stage an escape of water.
A claim is then made [Intimated] to BOTH insurers, and in days of old this jack the lad would be paid out twice for the damage.

Given the above the Insurers then start to use a very, very large database run independently of the insurers where absolutely ALL insurance claims for whatever reason a claim has been made, the participating insurers feed the data as regards any new claim intimated direct to the database, now for the clever bit? or it is supposed to be if a claim is made via two insurers for the same address then this flags and the two insurers are informed. then the sting. all proceeds as far as the claimant is concerned then the trap springs and someone ends up in a court?

As for getting professional assistance to back up a claim for Subsidence?
the independent surveyor has a few addenda's such as.

1/. if he states there is not a case for Subsidence, and he is proved wrong, it is his PII that will pick up the cost, and ultimately the independent will pay the bill.

As an aside at this point, If I come across a recently purchased property with a crack, and the purchase survey states the crack is not subsidence, then it is proved it is Subsidence, the insurer will pursue the valuation surveyor for the full cost of any repairs.

2/. It is in the independents interest to promote the idea of Subsidence, the independent will make a fee out of it? Phrases such as
Appears to be a downward movement to the rear / the right / the front, gets around the explanation nicely.

What is needed is evidence, a drain survey. a Soils investigation and at times crack monitoring [now considered old hat?]

Probably the last is not directly relevant, but when in this board did anything stay on track?
 
Honestly. Never seen so much fuss over some poorly laid slabs.

Just lift them up and put some more bedding material underneath, then relay them. Your drain hasn't collapsed. It's plastic and only a few years old.

The conservatory settling is what almost all house extensions do, and can be ignored if the movement has stopped.
 
I agree the two posts above
and how deep is the drain? if your that bothered lift the slabs and get a shovel and start digging, youll soon find out if its collapsed
bet its not though
 
Go on get the A TEAM in spend a few grand or just relax and stop thinking of ways to waste you cash!
 

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