I found this while doing some jobs

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Just doing a few minor works for a family and I came across this


You might be able to see the damage to the sheathing caused by the lack of a grommet in the entry hole in the back box. The cables hadn't been clipped to the timber the box was on. You may also be able to see some (presuambly) old wires, just cut and left in situ. You might also be able to see that there is no earth wire to the metal back box itself.

Bearing in mind this house has just been re-wired and a cert. issued by the electrician, I thought I'd check some other sockets and they all share the same problems, although I havent found more sheath damage as I haven't dug too deep.

I have told the house owners of the problems as in my mind they are potentially serious. Was I right to be concerned? If so, what should be their next step?
 
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There must be plenty of installations dating back to the 60's that are the same. (except they have no earth sleeve)
 
There must be plenty of installations dating back to the 60's that are the same. (except they have no earth sleeve)
True - but the ones you're talking about presumably haven't been "just rewired".

Kind Regards, John
 
Just rewired - as in, 3 months ago.

I could add some earth wires to the back boxes, but presumably the electrician should be given the chance to come back and sort it?

Should they be reporting the work to some governing body or other? O is it all safe and I am over-reacting?
 
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Just doing a few minor works for a family and I came across this

Where is that socket and/or where is it supposed to be?


Bearing in mind this house has just been re-wired and a cert. issued by the electrician, I thought I'd check some other sockets and they all share the same problems, although I havent found more sheath damage as I haven't dug too deep.
Once back boxes are fixed in place, and cables run into them, the cables tend not to move about, and so don't get damaged.

That said, it's a shoddy job, and betokens an attitude to workmanship which is incompatible with being a competent electrician.

IMO it contravenes 134.1.1. so IMO the EIC is a forgery and the Building Regulations certification is a lie.


I have told the house owners of the problems as in my mind they are potentially serious. Was I right to be concerned? If so, what should be their next step?
To ask you to do a bit more digging, take some more photos, and explain to them what's wrong so that they can complain to the electrician's scheme organiser.
 
As I understand it as long as the backbox has at least one fixed lug then using the faceplate screws to earth the backbox is considered acceptable.

As for the lack of grommets IIRC the regs on that are pretty vauge, something along the lines of where required to prevent damage. The cable has been scuffed slightly but it doesn't look like it's been scuffed any more than it would have been from being dragged through various holes in masonary.
 
Just doing a few minor works for a family and I came across this

Where is that socket and/or where is it supposed to be?


Bearing in mind this house has just been re-wired and a cert. issued by the electrician, I thought I'd check some other sockets and they all share the same problems, although I havent found more sheath damage as I haven't dug too deep.
Once back boxes are fixed in place, and cables run into them, the cables tend not to move about, and so don't get damaged.

That said, it's a shoddy job, and betokens an attitude to workmanship which is incompatible with being a competent electrician.

IMO it contravenes 134.1.1. so IMO the EIC is a forgery and the Building Regulations certification is a lie.


I have told the house owners of the problems as in my mind they are potentially serious. Was I right to be concerned? If so, what should be their next step?
To ask you to do a bit more digging, take some more photos, and explain to them what's wrong so that they can complain to the electrician's scheme organiser.

It was screwed to a joist in the stud wall. I intended to move it across the wall a foot or two. The damge to the sheath was already evident once I had opened it up.

I'll check yet more (I have already had a look at 3 or 4 more, all of which lack grommets and earth straps to the back box)
 
I'll check yet more (I have already had a look at 3 or 4 more said:
Which, as explained above, are not actually required. Grommits are good practice. Earth straps not required if the back box has one fixed lug. Certainly not dangerous.
 
Oh and I forgot to mention the lighting cable, that used to go to a wall light, left sticking out of the wall, with a choc block on the end and no clue as to if it was live or not (it wasn't). Not even any black tape around it.
 
OK fair enough. Can you explain the fixed lug part......what connects the back box, and by implication, the faceplate screws, to earth?

ETA

Just googled it and the screws are earthed via the faceplate itself? Hence no need to earth strap? You live and learn.

Would not the lack of grommets normally fail an inspection? If the faceplate was a bit loose (as this one was) might you not get rubbing of the cable against the sharp edge of the hole? (I presume this was what caused the damage here...)

I am not trying to find fault with the work - I was just concerned for the client.
 
On a normal socket the earth bar extends to the faceplate screwholes such that the faceplate screws make contact with it. The faceplate screws are made of metal so when the faceplate is tightly screwed to the backbox they make a solid connection to both the metal peice in the faceplate and the lug of the backbox.

The lugs on a backbox can be either "fixed" (that is an integral part of the backbox) or able to move slightly (thus allowing slightly adjustment of the socket position without moving the box, but also meaning that the integrity of the electrical connection between lug and box is suspect). If at least one of the lugs is fixed then it's considered an acceptable means of earthing the backbox.
 
Interesting stuff, thanks. Why have earthing points in back boxes with at least one fixed lug then?
 
Interesting stuff, thanks. Why have earthing points in back boxes with at least one fixed lug then?

I think it's in case you are running metal conduit to a back box. This will need to be earthed from the back box.

Kind of guessing, brobably pollocks.

I have no idea how proprietary metal conduit permits fixing a wire to it's end though... :?:
 

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