Table saw - I know, discussed plenty of times

So I quite like the Axminster AW12BSB2 but to get all the kit I need it costs around £1500 with the extras

I really just want:

10" or 12"
cast iron top
accurate, long, reliable fence
two slots (1 each side)
doesn't need to be mobile
induction motor (soft start etc)
cost? £850 or less

Does anyone have one they would recommend, and why, that fits that quite generic list?

I generally use my festool TS55 with tracks for ripping, but it can be a pain to set up for repeated cuts and my old table saw was about £100 and just isn't accurate or nice to use.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

PS

I did search this forum first but I couldn't see any recent reviews on table saws.

theSouth said:

I really just want:

accurate, long, reliable fence
two slots (1 each side)
doesn't need to be mobile
induction motor (soft start etc)
cost? £850 or less

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Induction motor at £850 or less? I think you'll be lucky unless you go secondhand on that sort of budget. I've seen a few Scheppach TS2000s around recently at about £1000 - accurate sliding high-low rip fence, designed to take a proper sliding table (better than those crappy American sliding box pieces of crap - not that I'm biased ), and a run-off table available, though personally I'd build my own because the manufacturers ones are always too small.

If you insist on new, though, there's always the Xcalibur from Woodford which have a couple of models that you might find of interest - they even meet your spec. Chiwanese (like the Axminster saw), but a lot for your money and a sliding table option, too. I've had a look in the past, and whilst they weren't up to industrial standards, they were way above DIY tat and might suit a small trade shop. £850 though? I really do think that you're 10 or 15 years too late for that! (given that Scheppach TS2000s were £1400 or so more than 20 years ago)

The axminster is an induction for around £850, although for the sliding kit and extension its more like £1250

I've been looking at the Scheppach PRECISA 3.0 recently, you may have seen I've posted a separate dedicated post asking about the locking of the fence (i.e. does it also lock at the back) (the wife has allowed me to spend up to around £1300 now!)

From my (limited) knowledge of table saws, although I've owned a cheap one in the past, the ability for the fence to lock at the front AND the back is quite important, if not the fence can wander.

Am I right to demand it locks at the front and back?

I don't have a vast experience with different saws, but the Luna W59 (unavailable now unfortunately) I've had for 25 years only locks the fence at the front. It used to be in use virtually every day in my one man furniture shop, and was used for everything from breaking down wany edge hardwood boards, to accurate sizing etc on the sliding table. Never had a problem with the fence. I think adjusted it literally a couple of times in that period. So I'd say that your question about the fence depends on the machine.
I'd rather have a second hand, solid, older cast iron and steel machine, which assuming the table and so on is OK will be capable of accuracy, and can be adjusted if necessary, than a shiny new aluminium castings and pressings job that will keep on falling out of adjustment and will probably never give good results.

SIP make good table saws. And the fence locks front and back. You can adjust the tightness as you want.
I had one but sold it reluctantly as I needed the space. Have a slider now.

I just googled the Luna machine - now that's what I call a machine!

And I agree with you, pretty much everything was built more solidly in the past, although I'm not a Luddite

I will only consider a cast iron top, though many I have read have reported that even these aren't perfectly flat (i.e. flat to within 0.5 mm or so)

I think my anxiety is due to using a cheap table saw whose fence was utterly pointless. it wandered both laterally and vertically! useless.

So perhaps I'm worrying about nothing.

UPDATE:

I've just found a YouTube vid that shows the fence does lock back and front, though not in one simple action. you have to lock the front, then turn a knob to lock the back. not as good as I've seen elsewhere and might become annoying in time...

theSouth said:

From my (limited) knowledge of table saws, although I've owned a cheap one in the past, the ability for the fence to lock at the front AND the back is quite important, if not the fence can wander.

Click to expand...

theSouth said:

Am I right to demand it locks at the front and back?

Click to expand...

No, not really. Firstly, take a look at the HSE PDF on safe table saw usage. All my working life wood machinists have been taught that rip saws with a short rip fence are preferable to saws with long through fences, unless you apply an auxilliary fence plate to the long fence so it can mimic a short fence. In my own experience (on Wadkin, Startrite and other older industrial saws) long fences with a claw at the back pretty much always go out of square and need to be checked regularly, sometimes on every cut. The longer the rip fence, the worse this problem seems to become. From the early- to mid 1970s that type of saw fence started to disappear rapidly in favour of the type we now see and which saws like the aforementioned Scheppach have. Unfortunately as you've found some of the DIY saw makers can't make a decent rip fence at all - same goes for many site saws TBH

The big plus of the British/European system of a short rip fence, riving knife and crown guard is that when properly executed the chances of a kickback are almost nil and injuries are much less likely at the saw bench, providing other safety procedures such as adequate outfeed support, stance/position (never directly behind the material) and use of long birdsmouth push sticks is observed.

So if you do want a fore and aft fixing rip fence I'd strongly recommend that you fit an auxilliary ripping plate when you are ripping timbers. Perhaps it's worth noting that in most cases the rip fence is merely guiding the timber into the blade (or at least it should be) and that once the cut starts coming past the riving knife there should be little need to put a lot of side pressure against the fence

I know that I'm making some assumptions about where you've picked-up some of your information, but your initial post sounded more like something off an American forum. Perhaps you think that I'm dismissive of American approaches, but 40 odd years of using table saws on and off from site saws to girt great 3.8 metre panel saws (including a spell in the USA) has taught me that our safety record and approach here is a heck of a lot better than theirs!

Good luck with your purchase, whatever you decide to buy

thanks for taking the time to write that detailed response.

and, yes, you're right! I've been watching quite a few videos posted mostly by americans, though there are a growing number of UK based woodworkers posting online from what I can tell.

I generally have used my TS55 to rip wood, but a decent table saw would make life easier for a lot of projects I still have left to do (a lot of trim-work is left on my long list from the wife).

the americans certainly have their way of doing things. I've read some articles about the americans criticsing how we in the UK work, how we use our table saws, etc, etc.. they say their way is better, we no doubt say ours is (and we'd be right )

like I've said, I think my bad experience some 10 years ago with a cheapo saw and coloured my view so perhaps I'm aiming too high, though I do want a mid-range table saw as I do plan to use it to build kitchen cabinets etc (although, there's an excellent chap on youtube who built his with just his TS55 and a whole bunch of other Festool kit)

I'm currently torn between the Scheppach and the Axminster - though, perhaps they come from the same Chinese factory

theSouth said:

I've read some articles about the americans criticsing how we in the UK work, how we use our table saws, etc, etc.. they say their way is better

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Yes, but we have a much lower accident rate, somewhere about 35% from what an acquaintance in the HSE says......

theSouth said:

I'm currently torn between the Scheppach and the Axminster - though, perhaps they come from the same Chinese factory

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Possibly. They look awfully similar. TBH if you're after a new saw I'd still consider giving Woodford a ring about the Xcalaber because they've sold them all over the UK and may have a user near to you. From what I can remember they are a lot more substantial than the Axminster or Scheppach saws you refer to having seen the Scheppach at NMA a little while back

EDIT: Correction to what I stated above - For Scheppach TS2000 please read TS2500 (a much bigger saw) - finger issues!

it does look nice, this one: 10" Cabinet Saw 3HP 1Phase Ref: 8060101


but that's 998+VAT and then there's the sliding table sat at 418 + VAT no doubt.


it would have to be a lot better for me to justify that to the mrs

A friend had the Scheppach a while back (I think it was anyway). IIRC He had trouble with accuracy with the sliding table.

As Job and Knock says, short fences are essential for the safe ripping of natural wood. If it springs and moves after the cut, (and it will!) and then gets trapped by the fence, it'll kick back. Kickback apart from being dangerous in itself from the thrown workpiece, may also cause the operator to come in contact with the blade.

Had a couple of minor kickbacks over the years, mostly my own fault. It ain't funny though! Certainly seen a lot more situations that could have developed into big trouble if I hadn't had the proper guard, riving knife and fence!

Some people cut man made board with a full length fence. It's stable so doesn't tend to spring when cut. In fact the Luna machine I have has the option to reverse the planer fence for wider ripping of ply etc. That is then "full length"
Personally i still don't like having the blade "trapped"

I've seen videos of the way Americans work. All due respect, but no thanks!

I've ordered a:

http://woodfordtooling.com/accessories/saw-blades/saw-hw110lge-30.html

Spoke to Roy at Woodford; lovely, helpful bloke.

Should be here on Christmas Eve - thanks Santa

Looks good! Santa's going to need an extra big sack for that!

That saw looks similar to the sip.
Good idea about an auxillary fence.
Heavy, solidly built machines are still available. It just requires more shekels to buy them.

The americans are big into sleds and most of their saws have long arbours as standard for big grooving cutters or dado stacks as they call them.