Smoke detector

no flameport I have little desire to look at the website.
and no the question as not been answered yet
read the bloody post I am not asking will the detector work (even though of course it will if smoke enters the detector) I am asking that as a requirement to put a detector in the landing no more than 3m from a bedroom door

its fags on the stage that's all!!
 
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(even though of course it will if smoke enters the detector)
Smoke will not enter the detector if the detector is not fitted correctly. Smoke is hot and rises, do you not recall the advice that if caught in a fire there is almost always breathable air close to the floor.

What will happen if there is fire in this property and the insurance company see that the smoke detector was incorrectly placed. They may not pay the full amount and then may help your customer to take you to court for damages due to your negligence.
 
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Ok lets have one more bash at this.
read the original post more thoroughly, it is the client, a very accomplished architect who we are renovating a cottage for, it is His specific desire to put the smoke detector in that position. the reaso I am asking this forum is that the sparky doing the works does not want to put it there as he says it cannot be signed off, lets say fair enough, some would say simple lets do as sparky says, but its my job to give my client almost everything he desires unless theres an absolute concrete reason that i cannot, at first i thought it was the electrician being lazy and not weanting to re-route his first fix 3 core cable, however this forum as more or less convinced me that our client is stuck with having to have it on display so to speak, however i have looked through a few website guides and found this
so maybe we would be ok after all, didnt realise also there are two types of detection that have different sensibilities and even a combination ionization+photoelectrical detector that are used to detect people having a fag in no smoking areas, possibly this could be the route we go down.

Please lets be constructive not all bolshy and fearmongering, you would have to stand in the property to appreciate the desire to do this, o
 
the detector position i have shown is in the "anywere in this area" of the downloaded image
 
BUT

it shows that there is nothing but free air underneath the space that is marked as "anywere in this area". This is critical.

Do you have free space under the smoke alarm position in your client's house?

YES, or NO.
 
"this is critical" why, for when the smoke rises into the apex so it shall disperse and fill the volume of the space.. or are you suggesting that this area could be a great non inhalation point to place ones head in case of a smoke ommiting fire below!!!
It may be i will buy a couple of batt operated and run some tests that could settle it i suppose
 
Why the f*** do you come onto a forum asking for advice and then completely ignore any of the advice that you have been given??

Its a waste of time, you are a waste of everybody's time. You do not even trust the judgement of your electrician - who has already given you his professional opinion.

Why do you not contact the maker of the smoke alarm and get their written assurance that your proposed positioning meets their requirements?

When the guidance is at odds with your thinking you will do your own thing anyway so, as they say in Dragons' Den "I'm Out"
 
Ok lets have one more bash at this.
read the original post more thoroughly, it is the client, a very accomplished architect who we are renovating a cottage for,
He may well be a very accomplished architect, but he is not even a slightly accomplished fire detection system designer.


it is His
If He really is God then why can't he just resolve this with a miracle?


specific desire to put the smoke detector in that position.
Tough. He can't have it there.


the reaso I am asking this forum is that the sparky doing the works does not want to put it there as he says it cannot be signed off, lets say fair enough,
Actually, let's say "good for him".


some would say simple lets do as sparky says, but its my job to give my client almost everything he desires unless theres an absolute concrete reason that i cannot
Fair enough - you've tried, and done your best. But your client needs to accept that his desires do not trump the laws of the land, the laws of physics or the way that detectors work.


Please lets be constructive not all bolshy and fearmongering, you would have to stand in the property to appreciate the desire to do this, o
Actually, we don't have to stand there - I'm sure we can understand the desire to not have things which are not especially attractive visible like that.

But see above re desires.

My constructive advice would be to go and engage the services of a professional fire detection and alarm designer, and have him design an integrated system which works as it should and has the least possible amount of unattractive lumps fixed to the ceilings.
 
I sometimes wonder why we bother giving advice on here :rolleyes:

Why come and ask for advice if you're just going to ignore it when it isn't what you wanted to hear
Why the f*** do you come onto a forum asking for advice and then completely ignore any of the advice that you have been given??

Its a waste of time, you are a waste of everybody's time.
Time-honoured practice, isn't it?
 
"this is critical" why, for when the smoke rises into the apex so it shall disperse and fill the volume of the space.. or are you suggesting that this area could be a great non inhalation point to place ones head in case of a smoke ommiting fire below!!!
You are already aware that most of those here, as well as your own electrician, do not regard your proposal as acceptable. However, given that you originally told us that your (and your client's) only interest was in "...having the installation certified for insurances etc.", it is surely not us who you should be trying to convince that your idea is acceptable - but, rather, the insurer. Don't forget that even if you managed to get someone to 'certify' the installation, that would not stop the insurer subsequently disputing a claim if they discovered that the alarm installation was, in their opinion, unsatisfactory. I would therefore suggest that you should present your proposal to the insurers and obtain (or not) their confirmation that it would b acceptable.

Is your client aware of the extent of feeling that the proposal is not satisfactory and, if so, does he actually want you to persist with trying to pursue it?

Kind Regards, John
 
so sorry to cause offence to anyone,

Wikipedia: Forum: discussion site on the internet!, I am as much trying to discuss this as well as take advice on this...I am coming to my conclusions as to what i need to do.

1.discuss with manufacturers will the detector work (so called)upside down
2. Study part B Building control
3.Discuss with client.
4. Discuss with insurers
5. Tell electrician what i want.
 
1. They might say no, in which case you are hosed, even though they are saying "no" wrt a consumer-grade fit-it-yourself product. Or they might say "Yes" and not take account of the fact that it won't go off until the room has filled with smoke down to the level of the detector.

2. You do not have the expertise to design a system which matches your clients needs as closely as possible, and Approved Document B will either only consider standard off-the-shelf systems or refer to BS documents which you do not have.

3. Your client does not have the expertise to design a system which will work.

4. The insurers will not accept anything non-standard unless it is designed by someone they regard as competent. Neither you, your client, or your electrician fit the bill.

5. Yes, but 1-4 will not get you what you and your client want.
 

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