Cheap Way To Heat Barn Conversion?

gag169 · 23 Feb 2015

We are doing a barn conversion, it is 180m2 in total and I am wondering what the most cost effective method of heating is including hot water. We are in the Fens, so main gas is out the question.

Do we need a hot water tank? Or would individual heaters under the sinks that do provide hot water to taps, would they be sufficient for a bath?

Had so many set backs with this, we have looked at renewable but the initial investment is too expensive, as we plan on selling the place once completed.

Any ideas? Thanks

Agile · 23 Feb 2015

The best way is underfloor heating and a cylinder.

Supplied by a heat pump.

Not cheap but not much more than an LPG tank and boiler.

But you can get an LPG tank supplied by Calor etc. whom your purchasers will pay through the nose and curse you about for ever!

Tony

Tibbot · 23 Feb 2015

Cheap to run = expensive to buy
Cheap to buy = expensive to run
Cheap to buy and run = do without.

gag169 · 23 Feb 2015

I have heard that LPG is a nightmare - a neighbor has it and regrets it!

When you say heat pump - what type do you mean??

G

Agile said:
The best way is underfloor heating and a cylinder.

Supplied by a heat pump.

Not cheap but not much more than an LPG tank and boiler.

But you can get an LPG tank supplied by Calor etc. whom your purchasers will pay through the nose and curse you about for ever!

Tony

Agile · 23 Feb 2015

LPG is always more expensive than town gas. How much more depends on the plan and how you manage it.

Perhaps 30% to 60% more expensive ?

There are many heat pump systems but whereas a gas boiler could be about £1800 installed, a good heat pump might be more like £2k to £6k.

There is also another problem that when its getting to freezing the efficiency falls off severely and then it can be difficult to get enough heat!

Tony

Agile · 23 Feb 2015

Of course I did not mention the probable cheapest system, off peak electricity.

That uses a night time heat of a good size cylinder for the HW and large bulky storage heaters for space heating. They tend to run out of heat by the evening and take up a lot of space. Very unpopular now. But they may be the future with ultra insulated new builds.

Also electric underfloor with extra thickness floors to at as a thermal store may be the future too in ultra well insulated properties.

Tony

Boilerman2 · 23 Feb 2015

Oil is still the best fuel if mains gas is not available and lately has been slightly cheaper than Gas!! go for an oil fired condensing boiler to heat UFH and un-vented hot water cylinder/s

THERE IS STILL A GOOD FUTURE FOR OIL FIRED HEATING IN THE UK!

vulcancontinental · 23 Feb 2015

Agile said:
LPG is always more expensive than town gas. How much more depends on the plan and how you manage it.

Perhaps 30% to 60% more expensive ?

There are many heat pump systems but whereas a gas boiler could be about £1800 installed, a good heat pump might be more like £2k to £6k.

There is also another problem that when its getting to freezing the efficiency falls off severely and then it can be difficult to get enough heat!

Tony

PERHAPS 30%-60%!!
£2000-£6000!!

Big variance there, do you do battleship, bridge, NHS reform and IT estimates for the government in your spare time?

ServiceNumpty · 23 Feb 2015

If sized correctly, Heatpumps are a good alternative. Went to do a 6 monthly check last week on one we fitted. The elderly customer is over the moon with how it's performed she mentioned the house has never been as warm, and in the years she lived there, she had oil, lpg and we removed a solid fuel system. If installed correctly it will keep you warm. She lives out in the sticks with only her daughter nearby who also has decided to have one installed in the summer.

Corgigrouch · 23 Feb 2015

Since your barn will have to comply with current insulation standards then an air to water heat pump will work well....But still being my usual cautious self, with an oil boiler as back up.....Oh and put the oil boiler in an outhouse or garage and not in the kitchen, if you get an issue your house will stink.

If you still would like to go for renewables such as pellet, but without all the RHI guff, it is amazing how the installation costs fall when you don't need an RHI installer...And you can choose from non RHI equipmet to save you a few bob too....

roguetrader · 23 Feb 2015

This is the mainstay of our business, as boilerman2 says, oil, UFH ground floor/rads first floor and an unvented cylinder. It comes out cheaper even taking the oil tank into consideration.
The first fill up of oil stings a bit and makes the gap to a heat pump a bit narrower but even so, barns aren't generally quite so well insulated and a bit more drafty.
Heat pumps are good but oil is the answer.
Lpg is nice and clean and gives you lots of choice on boiler, but it's expensive.

gag169 · 24 Feb 2015

We have no heating and the barn is double insulated, for example when 70mm specified, we put 150mm so warm in winter without any heating.

We are thinking UFH and always have, so what is the best way in powering that? Right off the grid? Then get solar and use doing day, give back to grid at night??

Would not consider oil as a neighbor has oil and moved to LPG and says both are VERY expensive, only him in the house and a rip off when it comes to refilling!

roguetrader said:
Barns aren't generally quite so well insulated and a bit more drafty.

Tipper · 24 Feb 2015

Go for ground source heat pump with UFH and receive 18.8p/kWh RHI cash.

Dan Robinson · 24 Feb 2015

gag169 said:
Would not consider oil as a neighbor has oil and moved to LPG and says both are VERY expensive, only him in the house and a rip off when it comes to refilling!

Is your neighbour as well insulated?

Heating is a luxury. Anything above 14 degrees inside is for your comfort. Luxuries aren't cheap. Especially in a Barn conversion.

Champagne ideas, beer money

.

stem · 24 Feb 2015

Ground source heat pumps are much more efficient than air source heat pumps.

In sub zero temperatures the efficiency of air source heat pumps falls, and they can use a considerable amount of the heat they generate defrosting themselves, instead of using it to warm the building.

Ground source heat pumps use a pipe system buried deep enough underground where the temperature is always above freezing, and in winter it can often be considerably higher than the air temperature. The downside with 'ground source' though, is that it is more disruptive and costly to install, and generally a reasonable size plot is required for the ground loop pipe system, although boreholes can be utilised.

Heat pumps don't heat water to the same high temperature as boilers do, and generally hot enough for radiators. So, they are best fitted to underfloor heating systems. For this reason, ground source heat pumps are usually found on new builds or major refurbishments.

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Cheap Way To Heat Barn Conversion?

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