I'll get it right - eventually!

Welllll, the Bongo runs again :p
I still wasn't satisfied with the timing marks on the injector pump and then I had a brainwave.....unusual, I agree.
So, jamming 'er indoors smart phone opposite the pulley, took a picture of the marks and after a couple of attempts I got the pic I needed.....the marks were in line after all :p
The plot thickens.......directly opposite the timing mark in the drivers foot well is a 12mm hole, covered by some tape and some Japanese writing.
What's the betting it's for a camera? If I have to do one of these again, it will be with one, so cheers Dave for that!
7 hours for a timing belt.....I ask you.
As it happens, the old belt and tensioner were in perfect condition.....I bet they can do twice the recommended mileage, or at least until 80k.
The cam seal doesn't leak either!
John :)
 
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Glad to hear you've done it John. I'll bet you were glad to get finished. I'm always paranoid about the timing marks lining up even when you can see them!
I've used that method of jamming my (non-smart but with camera) phone up behind things to "have a look" in the past. I'd forgotten that. Handy when pulling things apart to make sure they go back the same way as well.
I reckon if that was my vehicle it'd get a bigger 'ole cut in the bulkhead where that 12mm hole is. Bit of sheet steel, some self tappers and some sealant to fill it after.
 
Been out in it this afternoon, drives fine but I did notice a whine when it was ticking over, wonder if the belt is to tight, did have it once before years ago, I will see how it goes for a few days.

Pleased to hear you have yours done John and its OK. I usually ignore the instructions for timing, I put a peg in the camshaft pulley and then a little dab of yellow paint on the crankshaft sprocket and on the front of the block. Rotated it several times, lined the paint marks up and the peg went straight in again so happy with that.

I did change the tensioner and idler as I had them, first time I have ever done it though, the original PSA ones seem to last forever.

Taking photo's is a good idea John in fact a necessity if I'm not going to put it back together straight away, I have the memory of a goldfish.

Peter
 
I think my problems would have been halved if the timing belt had white lines across them......some of them used to have!
It would have helped with my mirror parallaxing but anyway, it's done.
Your belt may be on the tight side Peter - is it possible to twist it 90 deg on its longest run?
At least yon Bongo has a spring to pull the tensioner tight, which is a good thing.
Time for its MOT in a few days.
John :)
 
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I checked the belt tightness before I removed it John and you could just about twist it 90 degrees so I set the new one exactly the same which normally works fine but i definitely have an engine speed related whine, not deafening in fact you can't hear it in the car but you can outside.

The XUDs had a spring tensioner which was a much better idea, I did the belt on the C5, which has the same engine, exactly the same way as this one and had no problem with it. I will leave it for a few days and see if it improves.

Peter
 
Refresh my memory if you will, Peter?
I seem to recall that these diesels had the tensioner on a swivelling quadrant, is that correct?
One type was adjusted using a squared end lever, but one had a spring on the end of the quadrant, to give it automatic tensioning.....were these both XUD engines? I haven't done one for around 10 years now.
At least you could lock the camshaft and injection pump with pegs.....I never did bother locking the flywheel!
John :)
 
In my experience John the XUD engine has the spring loaded adjustment but the Hdi doesn't, it does as you say have a square hole for tensioning, into which I fit my ground down allen key. You are supposed to use some complicated tension meter with the Hdi engine which I don't posses and have managed perfectly well without until now.

We used to manage perfectly well without all this expensive test gear, I only ever use a torque wrench for cylinder head bolts. We used to be able to tell by feel how tight to do things up.

Peter
 
I'm harping back to the days when the Peugeot 205 diesel was very popular.....that had the 1.8 engine, and I did many a timing belt. Grand car too!
I just can't remember a spring there, but certainly the 1.9 BX definitely had one. Probably a memory thing anyway!
Popular methods to secure the crank pulley are by tapers alone, no keys.....I'm not going to even try that!
John :)
 
You have to wonder how many small garages have all the expensive test gear. I can't for the life of me remember what it was, but I know there was something years ago that was supposed to be done "properly" and when questioned the bloke I knew at the main dealer told me they never used the proper kit.
You do have to wonder though if at least part of the (seemingly) longer intervals for changing timing belts is down to accurate tensioning, or is it that newer belts just need more accurate tension?
 
I think its probably because the belts have improved, they are also somewhat wider than they used to be.

Peter
 
You have to wonder how many small garages have all the expensive test gear.
Click to expand...
If you look at the various Internet surveys, not many!

When I changed belt on my own 406 it should have been set to so many 'SEEM' units.

What I couldn't get my head around was how they reached this figure. My simplistic logic kept coming back to they design the engine and tighten belt to what they consider, or calculate, what it should be, or a tightness they were happy with.

Be it a mathematical calculation, or based on the old idea of twisting belt 90degrees, but whatever means they had to discover the correct tension and then only then measure it with a SEEMs meter to come up with a figure afterwards.

Seems (!!) as if the SEEMs units are unique to the maker of the meter from the research I did at the time.

My conclusion, at the time, was that the manufacturers come up with their desired tension, calculated (or guesswork), and then measure it to get a figure which they then publish for repeatability.
 
As with all measuring kit, you have to wonder how well any meter is calibrated after it's been around for a while. All very well zeroing it, but that's not the whole story.
Some interesting stuff here including a SEEMS to Nm conversion.
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=95352
Seems that SEEMS is an acronym for South East Electro Mechanical.
 
Whatever tension you set it to its unlikely to stay there for the life of the belt unless the new belts don't stretch now, I have seen XUD belts that are nearly falling off but still doing the job. I must admit though that the 406 one I have just changed was about right, if you consider a 90 degree twist about right.

I have done about 45K in the car and the car has done 234k so it must have had at least one belt before I had it. I set the new one the same so am surprised at the whine, unless I was stronger when I fitted the new belt than when I took the old one off. :confused:

Peter
 
Don't know if it's off that link, or somewhere else, but I read that modern belts should be slightly tighter if anything. "A bit less than a quarter turn" someone said somewhere. Whether that's right or not I don't know.
I always wondered about the quarter turn thing as well. When I was woodworking every day I had a pretty good grip, so how much of the quarter turn was I supposed to take off. :)
Also somewhere on the net is a list of new and used tensions for belts. IIRC it gives + / - 5% for the correct new tension, so there is some leeway. Used tension is way down on new.
 
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