Corgi report on Flueless Gas fire incident

doitall · 18 Oct 2006

ChrisR said:
the bell of justice being done is pealing loud and clear

Click to expand...

Is it? What action is being taken against the manufacturer?

And that Powermax which killed someone when BG got it wrong - no prison sentence there?

yes Chris, and they attended 10 times and still got it wrong.

softus said:
The report documents the observation that the adjustment had not been changed from the factory setting.

The manufactures instructions say that it is factory set, and indeed the adjustment screw is sealed with red paint, a sign not to touch.

softus said:
One could expect that the modification was to change the factory setting. Surely a recall would be the natural result of such a change.

No recall notice in the national papers, so not too serious about it.
How many have they not found.

Why didn't Corgy or the HSE issue a statement warning of the possible dangers.

And why did the fire work through the winter without problems.

Stoyer · 18 Oct 2006

oilman said:
!!

Stoyer said:

I totally agree with you Tony, but the guy has made a fatal mistake and being trained in the profession be it heating or fires he should know better.

No DIY'ER can justifiy doing this type of work himself, do you know what your doing 100 % -- err --- no - then leave well alone !!

There is no second chance

oilman said:

Stoyer said:

..................

No DIY'ER can justifiy doing this type of work himself, .................

Click to expand...

That's a bit exclusive isn't it? Just because people are qualified doesn't mean they do things properly, and conversly, just because they are not qualified doesn't mean they don't do things properly.

Don't make the mistake of tarring everyone with the same brush.

Click to expand...

Oilman,

I think you mis-understood me, I not talking about painting a ceiling or hanging a door. If that goes wrong, what's the consequence, it looks poor, that's it !

You wouldn't fit a new gas fire - given no training or qualification ?
I know I could fit it - read the instructions, connect a bit of old pipe, bingo it works !

Click to expand...

For my own purposes I could fit a gas fire, I do not have formal training, but I have enough knowledge to know where to find the necessary information, and carry out the necessary tests.

I have the skill to do the job - but not the training for the tests and the set-up.
Is it right and safe - it is bo****ks - the "DIY'ER" should be locked up.
I cannot believe someone without the knowledge would even attempt it.

Sizing the pipe, checking for leaks before you start, checking pressure's afterwards, carry out ALL tests required should be second nature to a skilled person in that field, never mind it should be set at the factory !
You cannot take the chance

Click to expand...

I think I understood you just fine.

Why should I think you were talking about painting? If you want to hijack the thread, post in "Decorating". I didn't think you were talking about hanging a door either, that would be posted in "Windows and Doors".

>> Ok that's helpful !

You have a low opinion of people. A DIYer may not be qualified but that is not the same as saying they have insufficient knowledge. Unfortunately there are people about who are "qualified" since they have a piece of paper, but they still don't have enough knowledge, or they are unable to apply it, and are therefore just as bad as anyone else who is unqualified.

>> No I don't have a low opinion of people at all, I agree with most of your thread here. But a person that's qualified but isn't sure, should not be able to do the work. Whether they go off and read a book or search the internet, its still not a recognized standard only there own perception of the new knowledge.

There are many people around who do not have todays bits of paper, but they know a lot more than you and I put together.

>> Agreed. But how do you control what work these folks carry out ?

When it comes to assimilating information, I think it is YOU who misunderstood ME

>> Possibly, my mistake Oilman..

+++++
Steady on, guys, let's not get too heated and develop into a bad-tempered argument. Respect to all your views.

Mod Rupert
+++++

oilman · 18 Oct 2006

Oh dear, Rupert's feeling lonely again.

Softus · 18 Oct 2006

ChrisR said:
the bell of justice being done is pealing loud and clear

Click to expand...

Is it? What action is being taken against the manufacturer?

The manufacturer didn't break the law - the installer did. However, it hasn't escaped all retribution, because there is the stigma. For example, no relative or customer of mine, if I can help it, will ever buy any product from that company. Ever.

And that Powermax which killed someone when BG got it wrong - no prison sentence there?

I don't know about that case - please explain some more.

Stoyer said:
Who decides who is competent ?

I can hardly believe that this is a genuine question. Are you really asking who decides on the circumstantial definition of a word that appears in a section of English legislation? Well, if you don't know, it's the English judicial system.

Does the law protect a member of the public from someone fitting a fire for £40 arrange the night before in the pub ?

Well not really, since there's no CORGI police force with telepathic powers, roaming pubs and night clubs to prevent this kind of arrangement being made. However, it's an offence for a non-RGI to install someone else's gas fire, even if they do it perfectly.

If so what is the penalty and does it fit the crime, which to me, the lay-person, is fairly serious.

Quite right - death is really quite a serious thing. I don't know what the penalty is - why don't you ask your MP and then, if you don't like the answer, ask him/her to raise the matter in parliament?

doitall said:
Softus said:

The report documents the observation that the adjustment had not been changed from the factory setting.

Click to expand...

The manufactures instructions say that it is factory set, and indeed the adjustment screw is sealed with red paint, a sign not to touch.

And yet it appears that the court decided that the installer was culpable.

doitall said:
Softus said:

One could expect that the modification was to change the factory setting. Surely a recall would be the natural result of such a change.

Click to expand...

No recall notice in the national papers, so not too serious about it.

I'm not sure that you now knowing about a recall notice is the same thing as there not having been one.

doitall said:
How many have they not found.

Rhetorical, I presume.

doitall said:
Why didn't Corgy or the HSE issue a statement warning of the possible dangers.

I would much rather how you know that they haven't, and how you know that they don't intend to.

doitall said:
And why did the fire work through the winter without problems.

Did it? How do you know? Were you there?

Someone said:
Steady on, guys, let's not get too heated and develop into a bad-tempered argument. Respect to all your views.

Hm. Heaven forfend that an emotive subject draws out any emotion.

doitall · 18 Oct 2006

And that Powermax which killed someone when BG got it wrong - no prison sentence there?

softus said:
I don't know about that case - please explain some more.

Young girl was killed after calling out BG 10 times complaining about the boiler, and each time they failed to find the problem.

doitall said:
Softus said:

The report documents the observation that the adjustment had not been changed from the factory setting.

Click to expand...

The manufactures instructions say that it is factory set, and indeed the adjustment screw is sealed with red paint, a sign not to touch.

softus]And yet it appears that the court decided that the installer was culpable.[/quote] The Courts decided he failed to find a fault said:
Why didn't Corgy or the HSE issue a statement warning of the possible dangers.

softus said:
I would much rather how you know that they haven't, and how you know that they don't intend to.

We have been asking them direct for several weeks without response until the statement was made the other day.
We intend to fully disguss this at our meeting with Corgy on Friday.

doitall said:
And why did the fire work through the winter without problems.

softus said:
Did it? How do you know? Were you there?

If a fire is fitted in November, one has to assume it was used prior to the accident in March, Why did no-one complain if there was a problem, and if there wasn't a problem Why not??

Softus · 18 Oct 2006

doitall said:
Young girl was killed after calling out BG 10 times complaining about the boiler, and each time they failed to find the problem.

Oo. No. Stop. No. You're overwhelming me with detail - surely you can just summarise the case and provide a reference?

doitall said:
Softus said:

doitall said:

Softus said:

The report documents the observation that the adjustment had not been changed from the factory setting.

Click to expand...

The manufactures instructions say that it is factory set, and indeed the adjustment screw is sealed with red paint, a sign not to touch.

Click to expand...

And yet it appears that the court decided that the installer was culpable.

Click to expand...

The Courts decided he failed to find a fault, which in view of the length of time the fire was installed, could have developed after several months.

How could the non-adjustment of a factory set and untouched adjuster have "developed after several months"?

doitall said:
Softus said:

doitall said:

Why didn't Corgy or the HSE issue a statement warning of the possible dangers.

Click to expand...

I would much rather how you know that they haven't, and how you know that they don't intend to.

Click to expand...

We have been asking them direct for several weeks without response until the statement was made the other day.

So, why then, in fact WTF then, are you asking me why your registering body didn't issue a statement? FFS.

We intend to fully disguss this at our meeting with Corgy on Friday.

And they might even take you seriously if you call them "CORGI" and leave the clown suit at home.

doitall said:
softus said:

Did it? How do you know? Were you there?

Click to expand...

If a fire is fitted in November, one has to assume it was used prior to the accident in March, Why did no-one complain if there was a problem, and if there wasn't a problem Why not??

One never has to assume anything. It's better to get the facts and then decide who's to blame.

ChrisR · 19 Oct 2006

Softus - the Powermax incident:
http://www.oxfordmail.net/news/headlines/display.var.843598.0.leaking_boiler_killed_woman.php

The gas fire one has been discussed seriously on gas-news, by the way.

ollski · 19 Oct 2006

I believe the powermax incident is currently under private legal proceedings and not yet completed.

Softus · 19 Oct 2006

doitall said:
And why did the fire work through the winter without problems.

Looking at the newpaper story (here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/5413478.stm), the fire had only been in operation for two days...

chrishutt · 19 Oct 2006

That report is rubbish. The fire was installed in November 2004 and the incident occurred in March 2005.

Softus · 19 Oct 2006

I stand corrected. Newspapers eh!

I can't find the 'gas-news' discussion that ChrisR mentioned - can you or ChrisR or anyone tell me (or Email me) the URL?

chrishutt · 19 Oct 2006

This link will take you to the beginning of the flueless debat on September 18th. The debate is on-going through the archives and into the current discussion section.

Softus · 19 Oct 2006

Thanks chrishutt. A deeply interesting and well presented discussion going on there.

diynot

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.

Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

Corgi report on Flueless Gas fire incident

Similar threads