lead

Skattie · 19 Aug 2005

Thx Paul
It was leadloc and the copper washer flicked over....
I thought about wiping it but have no experience in that area....
It had been fixed before, the leak was from a glob of lead solder that a previous plumber had blobbed over a previous leak.
I've suggested when he has a new kitchen (one day) he replaces all lead with copper at that time.

Skattie · 19 Aug 2005

Right, that's it!! The bloody thing popped off last night, water everywhere.
No more leadloc for me!
I shall try to get hold of one of those other things (that u have to break before fitting?)
My leadloc got pushed up the pipe, I can see the cut where the thing flipped over and dug into the lead, but it's only about 1/3 around the pipe, obviously not enough.

chrishutt · 19 Aug 2005

Sounds like you might have fitted too big a size of leadloc. It's always difficult to judge what lead size you have, but in my experience the compression nut is usually quite a close fit around the lead, and the O ring more so - often the lead pipe needs shaving down to get a good fit.

I keep a selection of sizes so that I can try several for fit before final selection. And I've never had one so much as leak, let alone jump off.

Paul Barker · 20 Aug 2005

Scattie I think you are a candidate for the large plastic ones plumb centre sell, sounds like you need the smaller one of the two. You probably also need a small piece of 20mm pe pipe which they will probably cut off for you, and a 20mm to 15mm converter. You'll need a bit of space around to fit it, tighten it up like there's no tomorrow.

Benny_the_ball-valve · 20 Aug 2005

TexMex said:
he doesn't know how to sweat the joint & also doesn't know anyone who can do it

Click to expand...

And you call him a plumber? 4 Hours and still not resolved? (I hope you didn't pay him).
I could have done it in less than that, Including the drive from Essex to Lancashire and back (well, perhaps only half way back). And I'm not even a plumber.

And therefore do not risk being struck off any register!

Perhaps somebody could confirm as to when this particlar skill was last taught to plumbers on City & Guilds courses? As a recently qualified plumber myself I understand that lead to copper jointing it is not likely to have been a part of any plumbing syllabus for twenty years or so.

TexMex said:
Any plumber with a blow torch should be able to "sweat" a lead pipe onto a copper or brass fitting.

Disagree - profoundly!

TexMex said:
I believe there is a policy to replace Lead pipes, where they are encountered, rather than repair them. If you can see both ends of the lead pipe, and it is copper the other end too. You would be better off replacing the whole section with copper pipe and fittings.

Absolutely correct and contradicts your point above!

ChrisR · 20 Aug 2005

I think the regs position is that you should only use mechanical connectors and not join copper to lead if the tap comes after the lead - because the copper makes some of the lead go into solution that way, and you end up drinking it.
In the real world there are odd times where it's a reasonable thing to do, imho.

It's still ok for waste pipes, to solder lead to copper. Sometimes it saves a fortune in extra work. It isn't hard at all to get something leakproof, if not quite what the masters would achieve. You might make a mess of the first one so practise not getting it too hot!

Benny_the_ball-valve · 20 Aug 2005

ChrisR said:
I think the regs position is that you should only use mechanical connectors and not join copper to lead if the tap comes after the lead - because the copper makes some of the lead go into solution that way, and you end up drinking it.
In the real world there are odd times where it's a reasonable thing to do, imho.

It's still ok for waste pipes, to solder lead to copper. Sometimes it saves a fortune in extra work. It isn't hard at all to get something leakproof, if not quite what the masters would achieve. You might make a mess of the first one so practise not getting it too hot!

Very good points, Chris. What irritates me though, is that I am regarded as not being a plumber because it quite simply is not a skill that has been taught on an industry recognised course (NVQ Level 2, that is). Regs are regs after all though I do understand that in some cases replacing all lead pipes for copper could prove very expensive and disruptive to the occupier.

Skattie · 20 Aug 2005

Back to my sidetrack thread...

Thanks chaps - I sorted it this morning (I hope)
Got a 1/2 71b Lead-Line fitting (similar to LeadLoc - but not the same)
and yes, had to shave a mm off all the way around the pipe to get the bastard on.
Very tight now - no way that's going to pop off!!!

Now where are those plasters for my knuckles?

PS. Anybody wanna buy a 3/4 LeadLoc - only used once!!!

ChrisR · 20 Aug 2005

Be VERY careful with Lead-line's. If you just put them on and do them up you always split the O ring. You have to sort of adjust it half way through the process.

Benny
[code:1]What irritates me though, is that I am regarded as not being a plumber because it quite simply is not a skill that has been taught [/code:1]

Just get some old lead pipe and stick solder for wiping (forgotten, called type D or something) . Clean everything and make sure it fits, use normal flux (no need for tallow!) heat the copper mostly, and keep trying it with the stick solder until it starts to melt. It goes "mushy" so you can push it about, handy for covering nail holes etc. DOn't play with it for more than a few seconds or, as they say, you'll "burn the tin out" and it'll melt and freeze at one temperature instead of over a range.

You don't need a "moleskin" for occasional use - use a bit of leather, or cardboard at a pinch.

If you just want to fit a copper pipe into a lead one, you can use ordinary solder, no problem. Make sure it's clean inside the lead pipe - needs a very good scrape. If you want you can "tin" the copper first, before you put it into the lead. If you heat the copper mostly, andthe very end of the lead pipejust starts to melt, stop there you've done it.

Get the lead too hot and it'll disappear onto the floor!

kevplumb · 20 Aug 2005

You don't need a "moleskin" for occasional use - use a bit of leather, or cardboard at a pinch.

should save the old legs the herberts are getting quicker

Benny_the_ball-valve · 21 Aug 2005

Skattie, sorry to have hi-jacked your thread but it has proved very interesting to me, a newboy plumber. I am glad you got everything sorted, albeit following the deluge.

ChrisR said:
Be VERY careful with Lead-line's. If you just put them on and do them up you always split the O ring. You have to sort of adjust it half way through the process.

Benny
[code:1]What irritates me though, is that I am regarded as not being a plumber because it quite simply is not a skill that has been taught [/code:1]

Just get some old lead pipe and stick solder for wiping (forgotten, called type D or something) . Clean everything and make sure it fits, use normal flux (no need for tallow!) heat the copper mostly, and keep trying it with the stick solder until it starts to melt. It goes "mushy" so you can push it about, handy for covering nail holes etc. DOn't play with it for more than a few seconds or, as they say, you'll "burn the tin out" and it'll melt and freeze at one temperature instead of over a range.

You don't need a "moleskin" for occasional use - use a bit of leather, or cardboard at a pinch.

If you just want to fit a copper pipe into a lead one, you can use ordinary solder, no problem. Make sure it's clean inside the lead pipe - needs a very good scrape. If you want you can "tin" the copper first, before you put it into the lead. If you heat the copper mostly, andthe very end of the lead pipejust starts to melt, stop there you've done it.

Get the lead too hot and it'll disappear onto the floor!

Excellent and interesting advice, Chris. Now I am off to recover a bit of lead pipe and some D type solder. Then I am genner print off your post, nail it to the wall and light up the blowtorch.

Seriously though (and if I master the knack) I would be particularly prudent if I were to consider doing this for a customer. Thanks again though.

bripl · 21 Aug 2005

you cannot pretend to be a plumber either you can plumb or you cannot lead/plastic/stainless steel/black iron/copper are all everyday materials that are used in the plumbing industry maybe the nvq needs adjusting to reflect the low standard and limited knowledge that people need to gain to call themselves a plumber,nowadays a tuff joint is against water regs as is lead locs below ground nowadays you could teach a chimp to plumb what with pushfit where is the skill in that do not get me started on heating and gas work

off me soapbox rant over

kevplumb · 21 Aug 2005

chill trev

bripl · 21 Aug 2005

next can of amber necter please kev

kevplumb · 21 Aug 2005

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