FAQs : CALLING ALL GAS FITTERS

scatmanjohn said:

Bahco....are we talking about boilers that are currently on the market or any from any era.

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Hi Scatman

I'd like your views on boilers currently on the market to point people in the right direction when they are considering to buy a new boiler please.

Your top rated one
Decent one
Troublesome ones you have come across.

Thanks

whatdo iknow said:

the the worst in the history of boilers

introducing the MHS strata

and if anyone is unfourtunate enough to come across a sensor fault, bear this in mind

hrpc parts centre what ever they want call them selves, will supply you with the wrong replacement

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have to disagree with that,the strata is far better built has better performance and will outlast a lot of steamers,maybe you had a bad experience with one have fitted ten of them a few years ago not one has missed a beat yet,service and set up is a gift on them.

Agree with the bit about the many boilers being the same bar one; worcester and bouderus are totally different.
a lot of people complain that wb is hard to work on, bouderus must be the number one if you want a quick job; half an hour to strip every single component and mybe less than 20 minutes if you do a lot of them.

bengasman said:

Agree with the bit about the many boilers being the same bar one; worcester and bouderus are totally different.
a lot of people complain that wb is hard to work on, bouderus must be the number one if you want a quick job; half an hour to strip every single component and mybe less than 20 minutes if you do a lot of them.

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I stripped a Buderus down in 19 secs at the NEC, the record is 11 secs ish

numpty1 said:

have to disagree with that,the strata is far better built has better performance and will outlast a lot of steamers,maybe you had a bad experience with one have fitted ten of them a few years ago not one has missed a beat yet,service and set up is a gift on them.

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In answer to the question which model, the strata streamline 31 i think
http://www.mhsboilers.com/site/75/32.html

I suppose compared to some boilers found on the domestic market, then yes i see your point, my complaint is the fact that they produced the fan with a totally exposed circuit board (later models have been coated with a waterproof compound) if either by design or bad luck, water is spilled from the flow and return vents above then the fan is toast.
so is the LMU64 controller

and as for the sensor, it was being sent out wrongly from MHS own stores

Slugbabydotcom said:

In trying to explain this my post has turned into a bit of a history lesson with a bit of a rant. .......Apologies for the essay but its at least part of what I had to say and thats just how it came out of my brain

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Great post, Slugbaby! I could argue with a few details too, but in general it's a good summary of the situation. I'd like to add a point about pricing that I think explains a lot about the way things have been going.

In the old days when there wasn't much to go wrong with boilers and parts were mostly generic and dirt cheap (t'couples, pilot injectors) boiler manufacturers had to make their profits on the sale of boilers. But then along came an army of cheap combis from mainland Europe and the new boiler market became intensely competitive.

What's more the demand for spares grew exponentially and many of these were model specific so could only be supplied by the manufacturer in question. The manufacturers soon cottoned on to the fact that supplying spares could be very profitable, providing they got enough of their boilers out there in the first place.

Finally the logic of the market results in even condensing combis being sold at remarkably low prices with, I suspect, little if any profit margin, so as to gain or hold on to market share. This of course pushes down the quality, especially in terms of longer term reliability. Then the manufacturers make their profits supplying spare parts, when they can charge pretty much what they want.

Poor reliability in the medium term becomes almost an essential element of the marketing strategy for most boiler manufacturers. Of course if reliability becomes too poor (e.g. Ravenheat LS, Suprimas, Ideal Response, etc.) the manufacturers damage their reputation and may only be able to sell to uninformed end users (e.g. through B & Q) so it's a difficult balancing act.
I

Agile said:

How many Biasi have you installed and what problems did they give?Tony

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Installed 7or 8 M90's around 2 years ago (good deal from local supplier). Gas valve gone on 1, flue stat gone on another, and a minor problem on 2 boilers, which nevertheless took me a while to suss out - Gas valve multiplug loose on the pins, which can stop a proper connection being made from the plug to the pins on the valve. Locks out after trying to ignite. All voltages correct on the pcb during ignition sequence, but valve wont open.

Agile said:

If they are installed on a clean system they rarely give any problems!Tony

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Agree with that entirely, I have changed pumps on one year old Biasi's because of that (not the ones I installed ! ), but that can be true for any boiler.

Any boiler change I do now involves a day draining, flushing and commisioning, but the only boiler changes I tend to get are regular customers, as they know how I work. Lose out every time to cheap quotes from other 'installers' who promise to get the whole job done in a day for £300 less than I quoted.

gasglider said:

Agile said:

How many Biasi have you installed and what problems did they give?Tony

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Installed 7or 8 M90's around 2 years ago (good deal from local supplier). Gas valve gone on 1, flue stat gone on another, and a minor problem on 2 boilers, which nevertheless took me a while to suss out - Gas valve multiplug loose on the pins, which can stop a proper connection being made from the plug to the pins on the valve. .

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The SIT 845 gas valve was prone to sticking as a result of glycol in the gas but that affected all the boilers using that valve. Later ones were modified.

Flue stat was on the M96. Early ones had a manual reset which sometimes gave nuisence trips or failed to reset. Pretty soon replaced by an NTC sensor which modulates the boiler back if it gets too hot!

The earlier gas valve plugs were just push on and any installer worth his salt would always check that all boiler plugs are firmly in place before commissioning. Later ones are fitted with a retaining screw.

Very rarely the older plug might have had too little grip on the pin and not always make full contact. Easy enough to remove and close female mating surfaces. That was usually easily identifyable by either measuring the solenoid resistance at the PCB end of the cable or just wobbling the plug during the ignition timed period.

Tony

Can we have your 3 best, decent and troublesome boiler choices please Tony?

whatdo iknow wrote

if either by design or bad luck, water is spilled from the flow and return vents above then the fan is toast.

they supply a clear tube to fit the vents to avoid this prob installer should leave it in the bottom of the boiler i fitted their controller r/s with ext weather comp absolute barsteward to set up unless you set the language parameters first instructions were not printed in english at the time

doitall said:

I stripped a Buderus down in 19 secs at the NEC, the record is 11 secs ish

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At your age you should not expect to be as fast or as agile as us young(er) ones!

Bahco said:

Can we have your 3 best, decent and troublesome boiler choices please Tony?

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I primarily only repair boilers and dont really have any views on which is the best. I keep an open mind and think that all boilers are likely to give good service if correctly fitted to a totally clean system.

I think the Worcester Ri is a very quiet heat only boiler and ideally suited for the 12 kW and 18 kW use. Less impresssed by the reliability of the combi versions though.

For a budget combi I dont think anyone could go wrong with a Biasi or Heatline but only if power flushed and professionally installed.

For my own most reliable it would be an Ideal CH502. First fitted about 1969, had the replacement modulation element replaced within a few weeks, then reinstalled about 1984 in a launderette to replace a pair of Potty Oil Dips where it has been working 365 days a year directly heating the water with an iron 15-60 pump even though neither of these is specified for use on direct water! Grunfoss CR 10m pressure pump. The water is treated with siliphos though.

38 years without any fault apart from the initial failure which affected all of that model. Not even a replaced thermocouple! It was based on an instant water heater and was about the first mass market low water content modulating boiler.

Tony

Thank you.

Sorry wrong mod No - twas M96. My problem was meausuring solenoid resistance at valve, which of course, does not show up the dodgy connection.

Disagree that you would check all boiler plugs. If the design is good, then you wouldnt need to, obiously a bad design if they then changed it to a screw secured one later on. on the two that I had, both plugs were fully home, and it was only by moving the plug during Ign sequence that I found the fault. All part of the process of building up a knowledge base for fault finding

I fitted a Vokera Unica the other day, which wouldn't initially work on DHW. Stuck flow switch, probably got stuck during transit. I went straight to it though, because I have seen this design stick on other Vokera models.

Heres my opinion.

Top rated...Worcester Greenstar range (CDi, Si , junior, i even like the highflow)

Decent: Vaillant Ecotec.


Troublesome: Ideal isar, anything by Glowworm