Removal of load bearing wall (Beam set in Party Wall)

I am hoping to have a wall removed in my 1930's home in the next Month or so. The builders are all lined up.

I have plans from an Architect - complete with Load Calculations so I am guessing I am in pretty good shape.

But the Beam (203x102mm 23KG) will sit on pad stones that are set into the Party wall (440x100x140mm) .


I have been reading in other threads that this could fall under the 'party wall act'?

Would I need to advise my neighbors in advance before work commences on this project?

(If it helps I can throw up a DWG).




PS - Sorry for such a complicated post for my first one

This might clarify it a bit..

Do you think I would need to inform my neighbors?

definitely!

if there happens to be header bricks at the load point, then you may inflict damage to your neighbours property, whilst removing the padstone brickwork..

OK - Thanks.
Sorry for all the questions.


But how many weeks notice is req normally?
* 2 or 4 Weeks

And should this come from me - or does the council generate it when I put in the Notice of Works?




- I am guessing some kind of insurance would be 'advisable' to have this done as well?

a party wall agreement is a point of law and little to do with the council.

the family lawyer is the best one to ask. probably.

or ^woody^.

I removed a wall recently and the UB had to sit on the party wall & there was no cavity.

Take a look at this (party wall booklet): http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/133214

What I did was order a couple of copies of the booklet, (took a few weeks to arrive) and then wrote a letter based on the sample ones, spoke to my neighbor about what i wanted to do, and then left them with the booklet and letter. They very reasonably signed the agreement and dropped it around the next day. So i was lucky. i

If you don't get on with your neighbors then you could have problems, as they could appoint a surveyor that you would need to pay for.

In my case I think it helped that i put in the letter that in the extremely unlikely event that any damage was caused to their property, then i would pay to have it rectified swiftly, and that the works would meet with all building regulations and be inspected by building control.

Good luck.

As if by magic, the shopkeeper appeared

The PW act is a bit of a strange one. For works falling under this act (which this work does) then the act says that you should follow it and notify the neighbour. But its only enforceable in the London area, but elsewhere if you don't follow it then there are no penalties or comeback on you at all.

I've probably posted on this quite a few times before, but basically its potentialy very expensive if you follow the act and serve a notice and go through the whole rigmarole.

Whatever happens, if you damage the internals of next door, then you are obligated to put things right and could be sued under common law - this is nothing to do with the PWA.

The PWA just basically formalises how work is to proceed and what precautions are to be taken - and this can cost you a few hundred £'s for the privilage.

The correct advice is that you should follow the act. But the act is prehaps more relevent for bigger more involved works, so if you really want to follow it is really down to one thing - do you get on with the neighbours?

If you pop round, tell the neighbours what is going on, tell them there will be some banging, and tell them that if there is any damage then you will put it right, then that should be enough. Whether you want to record any existing cracks or take pictures is up to you.

If you want to formalise it, then give them a PW Notice and ask for them to sign it - but there are time limits which you have to wait. Then the neighbour will either sign it, or look into it and then want a PW Surveyor to be appointed, or possibly two (one to represent each of you) and then the fun and the costs starts.

If you are going to serve a notice, then you must serve this at least two months before the work is to start, and if you get no reply within 14 days, then a dispute is deem to have arisen.

One possibility if you don't serve, is that the neighbour could apply for an injunction to stop the work untill the act is followed - but this is very unlikely unless the neighbours have lots of money and hate you

As an aside, that beam seems rather over specified for such a small span. Did the engineer consider a cheaper and smaller/lighter 178x102x19?

Great Advice thanks.
We have a pretty good relationship with the neighbors, so we will probably serve them notice - just to keep them onside. But I am going to write in their the proposed start date of < 2Months.


I have a conservatory about to go through planning so I want them happy with me

^woody^ said:

As if by magic, the shopkeeper appeared

As an aside, that beam seems rather over specified for such a small span. Did the engineer consider a cheaper and smaller/lighter 178x102x19?

Click to expand...

Well spotted
I asked for him to consider a future loft conversion in his Calc's.

have the n'bours had the same thing, or intend having the same thing done as you?

if they were, that could also have consequences regarding load on the party wall.

let's hope the foundations are adequate, hey.

noseall said:

have the n'bours had the same thing, or intend having the same thing done as you?

if they were, that could also have consequences regarding load on the party wall.

let's hope the foundations are adequate, hey.

Click to expand...

They have had a similar thing done yes, but I believe that they have their RSJ sitting on a bit of the old wall.

I think that most people down my street have done it to be honest. Quite frankly I never knew that sitting the RSJ on a Pad in the wall was possible... it will certainly look neater than a sticky outy bit.

Should I worry about Foundations?

kstone said:

Should I worry about Foundations?

Click to expand...

building control or your s.e. can advise.

we have, in the past, been asked to dig test holes in order to unearth foundations for a suitability inspection. the consequences of a substandard foundation could mean an underpin reinforcement.

^woody^ said:

As if by magic, the shopkeeper appeared

The PW act is a bit of a strange one. For works falling under this act (which this work does) then the act says that you should follow it and notify the neighbour. But its only enforceable in the London area, but elsewhere if you don't follow it then there are no penalties or comeback on you at all.

Click to expand...

Please dont take this the wrong way but where did you get the idea that its only enforceable in the London area ? (You may be right but I would be very very surprised on this occasion)

Its not my idea But prepare to be suprised!

In London, Part 6 of the London Building Act 1847, required that neighbours notified each other for certain works. It was something to do with a little fire down that way some years previous IIRC. This was consolidated into the London Building Acts 1939

In !997, this was extended to England and Wales - due to the amount of work going on and disputes in the courts.

The oddity, was that the failure to notify under the PW Act carries no penalty for the building owner, but AFAIK in London this work is still related to the London Acts, and so carries penalties.

I don't do any London work, so I stand to be corrected, but AFAIK thats the situation.

Another interesting snipit, is that a few months ago, I read a report which mentioned that since the PWA came into force, there have been no disputes settled in the court, and it remains very difficult for anyone to enforce their rights under the Act or force PW Awards unless they have a lot of money to pay the legal fees. The very people the act is meant to protect (Joe Public) get no benefit from it.

If you are a big business wanting work done, or a developer with deep pockets, then you are more or less guaranteed to get your way if you use the PWA

noseall said:

have the n'bours had the same thing, or intend having the same thing done as you?

if they were, that could also have consequences regarding load on the party wall.

let's hope the foundations are adequate, hey.

Click to expand...

OK,

I popped round to look at Next door.

They have done exactly the same, the RSJ sitting on Padstones in the Party wall (I hope they are anyway).

Whats the general thought on Loadbearing for a double brick Party wall?
* Should I be concerned?

If a foundation is already supporting a two storey wall or more, then I can't see why it can not support a beam introduced into it like the one proposed. Same for the bricks/blocks in the wall too

Some BCO's may for some reason, want the foundations exposed. But this is more to do with inexperience and not having a clue, rather than for any practical reason.

To the OP, you seem to have had some 'proper' drawings and design done. If an engineer or designer has been paid to do this work, then I would expect him to have done all the necessary design work so that the client did not have to worry whether the wall would hold up the beam or not!

Half a job or money under false pretences?