Joined: 27 Feb 2008 Posts: 41 Location: London, United Kingdom Thanked: 0 times
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:02 am Post Subject:
Self-build summerhouse / office / playhouse?
Hi,
Fantastic forum, read so many posts which is why I am still online at 2am. Many very nice gardens on show and self-built sheds. Hopefully you can help me create my own also.
I've decided to give building my own playhouse / office / summerhouse but as a bumbling knuckle dragging diy'er I'm going to need a lot of help and advice. I have a space that I wish to use which is roughly 31ft x 11ft (up to the path). Photo's below:
Most of the rubble in the 2nd pic actually came from the area when I was clearing it. Towards the back fence it came to about half way up the side fence, all of which has had to be removed.
I would like the place to have at least 2 rooms, possible 3 smaller rooms, one to be used by me as a space to get away from the wife and children, I mean an office to work from, and a games room for the children (maybe even an emergency guest house). I can do the internal partitioning afterwards. I have been advised to use 4x2 but notice on here that many have built there's from only 3x2 so interested in what everyone thinks. I was also only going to use a flat roof design as I feel this looks a lot easier to do.
I have a few ideas on insulation I would like and how I was going to do the frame and walls but I am already stuck at the base! Obviously I wish it to be damp proof so will need a DPC and I was also thinking of putting insulation into the concrete as was done by the builders that recently did my rear extension. I was advised that I could use strip foundations (trench fill) but I've tried reading up on this and it seems this is normally used from brick / block built buildings and I can't see how I could use it and put in a DPC with a timber frame. I've started digging the space out for a raft foundation but not sure how deep to go, how much hardcore to use, concrete, DPC, insulation (if any) etc. etc.
Although I built the metal shed and base (approx 5-6 years ago but didn't put a DPC in though - big mistake) seen in the pictures I really can't remember how I managed it so please treat me as a complete novice (you may need to explain things very slowly).
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Posts: 7301 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom Thanked: 190 times
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:31 am Post Subject:
you will need planning permision
if your combined sheds are more than 30square m
take up more than half the garden
are nearer than 1m away from the boundery
or have sleeping accomidation[i doubt a sleeping bag on a sofa 1 or 2 days a year will bother anybody]
what size where you thinking about!!!
__________________ big all
we are------------------ all still learning
Joined: 27 Feb 2008 Posts: 41 Location: London, United Kingdom Thanked: 0 times
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:14 am Post Subject:
Thank you for the advice Big-All.
I was thinking of taking up the entire 31ftx11ft or most of, which if I am correct is under the 30 square metre rule (if only just). It doesn't take up half the garden. No sleeping accommodation (the emergency guest house idea was simply me thinking of when my eldest son has his friends over). 1 metre from the fence .... ummmm ok got me with that one but its at the bottom of the garden and there is no one behind us (it's a school), I won't have any problems with the neighbours and to the left is basically there dumping yard any how (they have that part of their garden fenced off - you maybe able to see a tree they cut down sticking up in the photo's) and further along in both directions I can see summerhouses / sheds of one kind of another at the back of the gardens some covering the entire width of the garden so I should be ok there.
Joined: 03 Sep 2006 Posts: 5824 Location: Birmingham, United Kingdom Thanked: 73 times
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:27 am Post Subject:
I think the big guy is confusing planning and building regs approvals
There is no 30m2 or 1m from boundaries criteria in planning, and sleeping accomodation is not relevent - all these are building regs criteria. And its 1/2 the area of all land around the house not just garden
Generally, the most common requirements for garden developments are - keep the height below 3m (or 4m to ridge if pitched roof) and if its more than 20m from a highway and not less than 5m from the house, then no PP is required.
Building regs will have different requirements though - thats when the greater than 30m2 comes into play - the cut off when b/regs will apply. Also, if within 1m to boundaires then needs to be built "mainly of non-combustable material" - but there could be exceptions
if your combined sheds are more than 30square m
take up more than half the garden
are nearer than 1m away from the boundery
or have sleeping accomidation[i doubt a sleeping bag on a sofa 1 or 2 days a year will bother anybody]
what size where you thinking about!!!
i dont think its half teh garden Big All
I thought it couldnt be larger than 20% of the total garden size?
I think the big guy is confusing planning and building regs approvals
There is no 30m2 or 1m from boundaries criteria in planning, and sleeping accomodation is not relevent - all these are building regs criteria. And its 1/2 the area of all land around the house not just garden
Generally, the most common requirements for garden developments are - keep the height below 3m (or 4m to ridge if pitched roof) and if its more than 20m from a highway and not less than 5m from the house, then no PP is required.
Building regs will have different requirements though - thats when the greater than 30m2 comes into play - the cut off when b/regs will apply. Also, if within 1m to boundaires then needs to be built "mainly of non-combustable material" - but there could be exceptions
This is a MUCH more accurate summary of the planning regs to the OP
Joined: 27 Feb 2008 Posts: 41 Location: London, United Kingdom Thanked: 0 times
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:10 pm Post Subject:
Apologies I seemed to have missed a few posts.
Thank you for the link to the reg's, I think I will still be ok both the sheds are at the rear of the garden which is over 5m from the house. Well away from any highway. I very much doubt there would be ever a complaint from any of the neighbours as neither side use the rear of their gardens.
Big-all, nice job. You'll have to slow down a little (maybe a lot) with the instructions for us knuckle dragging thickos. So you didn't dig anything, just laid slabs every 2 feet and then put bricks on top, followed by felt (I assume this is your DPC). Bricks might be out as that will mean learning to lay bricks, why felt instead of a DPC membrane?
I've already started digging the hole (had to level the area anyway) and as you can see I have plenty of hardcore I could use if required. I thought I would need to go a little deeper with foundations. Basically I have no idea.
So what should I do? Should I dig the hole further (how far?), throw in hardcore (how much?), level with building sand (or sharp sand?) put shuttering round (how? how high?), Fill with concrete (mix required?).
I was thinking of having the concrete floor as the floor (maybe using latex to level floor?). If I did this I would like to put insulation into the concrete but I would then also need to add a DPC below the concrete but not sure how. Also as most I have read seem to create a wooden floor using joists etc. I am now thinking of putting a DPC membrane on top of the concrete (or felt if that is better or both even) cut to exactly the size of the concrete? Put frame onto this (but as the DPC will now be immediately under this how do I screw the frame down to the concrete or do I?). And would it also be ok to add insulation between the floor joists (under floor)?
Joined: 20 Aug 2004 Posts: 2181 Location: Surrey, United Kingdom Thanked: 42 times
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:55 pm Post Subject:
I'd be tempted to go the strip foundation route you first mentioned.
Use four strips one 3m long at each end and two 3m long ones equally spaced along the length. Finish the concrete just below ground level, then lay a course of 3.5kn blocks along each strip. Lay a dpc ontop of the blocks and then a tanalised 100x50 timber plate laid flat. You can then span between the strips with 3.6m long 150x50 joists and put rigid insulation between them, lay a DPM and then a ply floor.
Use your level floor as a base to make the walls in approx 3m long panels then raise them up vertically, something like 38x89CLS would be a good choice of timber. Make one long wall approx 300mm taller than the other and this will give you a decent slope.
Cover the outside with 12m WBP ply then breather paper then cladding of your choice. Fill between the studs with fibreglass or rigid insulation, DPM (polythene) on the inside of the studs then TE plasterboard, tape & fill the joints.
Generally, the most common requirements for garden developments are - keep the height below 3m (or 4m to ridge if pitched roof) and if its more than 20m from a highway and not less than 5m from the house, then no PP is required.
That's correct, I don't know if this is a useless info as this was a couple of years ago, I was told by my local planning dept that the 5m must be from the house but if you have a conservatory then the 5m must start from the conservatory.
__________________ Always judge a man by the way he treats someone who is of no use to him
I'd be tempted to go the strip foundation route you first mentioned.
Use four strips one 3m long at each end and two 3m long ones equally spaced along the length. Finish the concrete just below ground level, then lay a course of 3.5kn blocks along each strip. Lay a dpc ontop of the blocks and then a tanalised 100x50 timber plate laid flat. You can then span between the strips with 3.6m long 150x50 joists and put rigid insulation between them, lay a DPM and then a ply floor.
Use your level floor as a base to make the walls in approx 3m long panels then raise them up vertically, something like 38x89CLS would be a good choice of timber. Make one long wall approx 300mm taller than the other and this will give you a decent slope.
Cover the outside with 12m WBP ply then breather paper then cladding of your choice. Fill between the studs with fibreglass or rigid insulation, DPM (polythene) on the inside of the studs then TE plasterboard, tape & fill the joints.
Jason
Thank you. sounds like a better plan and certainly the one I wished to go with originally but wasn't sure how. To be honest a lot of what you have mentioned as gone over my head so please bare with me.
First of all, i've half dug the dirt out so I'll have to put some back. Dig a 3m strip along both ends and again 2 x 3m strips down each side of the lengths. How wide and deep do you think I should go? Should I throw hardcore in first or just concrete it (what mix?)? How can I be sure that each trench is filled to the same level with concrete?
I've not laid blocks before but I would be willing to give it go for just one layer as this shouldn't be to difficult to get level. Regarding the wood / frame etc. I will get back to you later with more questions but again thank you for the help and advice.
I think the big guy is confusing planning and building regs approvals
There is no 30m2 or 1m from boundaries criteria in planning, and sleeping accomodation is not relevent - all these are building regs criteria. And its 1/2 the area of all land around the house not just garden
Generally, the most common requirements for garden developments are - keep the height below 3m (or 4m to ridge if pitched roof) and if its more than 20m from a highway and not less than 5m from the house, then no PP is required.
Building regs will have different requirements though - thats when the greater than 30m2 comes into play - the cut off when b/regs will apply. Also, if within 1m to boundaires then needs to be built "mainly of non-combustable material" - but there could be exceptions
yep i think your spot on my mistake thanks for pointing it out
Joined: 27 Feb 2008 Posts: 41 Location: London, United Kingdom Thanked: 0 times
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:51 am Post Subject:
Anyone help?
Does the 3m strips along all four edges a reasonable solution? How deep / wide? How much concrete will I require? Should I use hardcore?
For the blocks that Jason recommended laying onto the concrete foundations, are these the ones I would require? http://www.wickes.co.uk/invt/154040
Also these are 215mm high with the timber onto of these it would require a step into the building or am I supposed to be laying these on there side (100mm high)? Or am I missing something (more than likely).
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