PLease help - Plywood v. mdf

ziggy1979 · 23 Jun 2008

Hi

I was watching the New Yankee Workshop and they were making kitchen cabinets out of "pre-finished" plywood. Its plywood with a hardwood veneer which comes with a factory lacquered finish.

I have called around a few timber yards in my area but they've not even heard of pre-finished plywoods. Does anyone know how much this can cost and who stocks it? Also, what alternatives are there. The timber yards have suggested veneered mdf but I've been told it doesn't take water too well which isn't great for kitchen cabinets.

Any advice much appreciated!

Thanks

Deluks · 23 Jun 2008

Hmmm, depends on how much moisture is in the kitchen. The sheets if veneered will only be exposed at the edges, which will be sealed right?

Chipboard doesn't like moisture either, and is what 99% of kitchens are made from.

Probably is a Yank only, or very specialised in the UK product.

I would imagine the MDF being much cheaper, if not in raw cost then in shipping cost if there's no supplier near to you of the plywood stuff.

Jasonb · 23 Jun 2008

With the large areas of forests in the US plywood is a lot cheaper than it it in the UK, in fact you will find it almost impossible to get veneered ply in anything over 12mm thick over here.

It is possible to but pre veneered MR (Moisture resistant) MDF but as said above the standard MDF is no better or worse than Chipboard.

There are a few companies that do the pre laquered wood veneered MDF, Edens do TFT Boards and South London Hardwoods do something similar, though its not on their site, only in the catalogue.

The real wood veneers will be quite expensive, if you want a good hardwearing wood grain finish then one of the many melamine faced boards will be a lot cheaper, edens do the Egger range

Jason

ziggy1979 · 23 Jun 2008

Guys thanks for your replies.

Are the pre-finished mdf boards water resistant because of the lacquer? Does this mean that if i put a pre-finished edging tape, the board will be properly sealed?

Jason have you ever used pre-finished mdf boards? Does the finish "splinter" or get damaged in any way when you cut the boards, etc.?

Thanks!

Majjie · 24 Jun 2008

There are quite a few bespoke kitchen companies and cabinetmakers in the UK using 18mm birch ply for carcasses. They usually spray lacquer them, or paint them, inside. Some use edging veneer for the shelf edges, some make a feature of the layers of the ply - well lacquered.

'Fraid I can't help you with what grade they use, or where they source their board - but it must be quite readily available - quite a few places come up on Google for birch ply.

From what I've been told, the boards themselves are quite liable to warp - if not stored well - but once made into furniture, it's stronger and more water resistant than mdf (and a whole lot better than chipboard).

Jasonb · 24 Jun 2008

Like any surfaced board if you don't have the right saw you will damage the surface. A table saw with scoring wheel is best, then a tablesaw with specific laminate blade is the next option down. Good quality circ saw and guide rail is also a possibility. If you cant saw a decent edge cut them oversize and trim with a router.

They will not be totally waterresistant even when edged, OK for the odd spill but if you have a persistant leak under a sink it will blow.

Re birch ply, there are a lot of different qualities about from cheap chinese birch faced that will warp all over the place right through to top of the range B/BB Finnish birch that will set you back about £100 a sheet if you can get it! and that is not a finished surface. Again they will withstand spills etc as they are WBP bonded(waterproof adhesive) but the actual timber will perish if subject to prolonged wetting.

This bar that I made has birch ply for the vertical surfaces and pre laminate (formica) covered ply for the horizontals, all lipped with solid oak for durability.

Jason

ziggy1979 · 25 Jun 2008

Jason thanks for your reply.

That bar looks amazing ... did you make it all out of birch ply? Also, what quality/type (i'm guessing not Chinese!), and therefore, cost per sheet did you use?

Also, how did you finish it?

With regard to cutting the pre-lacquered mdf ... some suppliers offer a cutting service. Will the machines they use be suitable for cutting these boards down without damaging the veneer and/or lacquered finish?

Thanks again!

Jasonb · 25 Jun 2008

Just the vertical parts that are not visible from the front of the bar are Birch ply. Horizontals surfaces are laminate covered ply and visible shelves and the bar front are Oak veneered MDF, bar top is solid oak. You should be able to view more pics from the link above if not try from here

Al the wood/veneer/ply is finished with a water bourne Lacquer in this case Dulux Diamondglaze.

Ply was 18mmLatvian birch

ziggy1979 · 25 Jun 2008

Hi Jason.

Those other pics are awesome. How long did that job take?

With regards to finishing, how many coats (brushed?), how much sanding and what grits did you use. Its hard to see from the pictures but it looks really smooth.

On the cutting service that some timber yards offer, are their saws likely to damage any pre-lacquered veneers?

Thanks

Jasonb · 25 Jun 2008

Took about 3 weeks to make and 8 days on site with a helper (all finish applied on site as client could not decide if they wanted clear or stained finish, went with clear.

Re cutting services, a lot will depend on what saw the company has and how sharp the blade is. A well set up vertical panel saw (like you see in B&Q) will give a good finish a beam saw will be better but less suppliers have them.

3 coats on the carcases, 5 on the bar top applied with a 4" paint pad as this introduces less air bubbles. Cut back with 320 grit silicon carbide paper between coats. It is smooth, as good as a sprayed finish, and thats the satin not gloss one

As I said earlier the wood grain MFC is another option, have a look at the inside sof the wardrobes called "bill" and "Marie-Ange" in this album which are beech effect. And theres always good old white

These are a much better quality chipboard than the "conti board" you find in the sheds.

Jason

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PLease help - Plywood v. mdf

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