Stud Walls and Building Regs

GeoffNT · 25 Jun 2008

Hi all, newbies first post

We have a first floor, 1 bed flat in Devon which had/has a large bedroom (5m x 4m appox). We decided to split it into 2 bedrooms by adding 2 stud walls see pics below.

Untitled

GeoffNT
25 Jun 2008
1

Untitled

GeoffNT
25 Jun 2008
1

The stud walls are a timber framework, dry lined and skimmed. There are 4 glass panels in the top of the longer stud wall to let light through to the newly created bedroom.

Now to the problem. I have been told that

1) Building regs approval should have been obtained for this work

2) Building regs don't allow for a bedroom without a window to the outside.

So I now need to know the best way to proceed to make the place "legal". Obviously, I can rip it all out again and put it back to how it was, but I was hoping to find a less drastic solution, so here are my questions:

1) If we simply call the new "bedroom" a dressing room, or walk-in wardrobe, would I be OK?

2) How much of a wall do you need to remove before it stops being a "wall" in terms of building regs? For example if I simply removed the 2 new doors, to leave permanent openings, would that help?

3) If I removed the parts of the new walls where the new doors are completely, just leaving full height partition across part of the room would that be "legal".

Any other help/suggestions greatly appreciated. We may be going to sell/rent the property soon so I want to make sure it is all OK.

Thanks in advance

Geoff

^woody^ · 25 Jun 2008

Who told you this?

The creating of the walls is not in itself controlled work, so the b/regs are not relevent.

The only possible b/regs issue is the bedroom without a window. A bedroom is required to have an additional means of escape to the doorway. This is normally a window, but can be anther door

However, two rooms can share a single window, so if you put a door into the new wall leading into the large bedroom, then this will comply with the b/regs (part b1).

In real terms any room can be called anything and can be slept in. However, people really need to consider what will happen if a fire starts outside a room. Having two escape routes is common sense

GeoffNT · 25 Jun 2008

This is where I read about the bedroom window rule http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/partition_wall.htm

A guy at work, who is having some work done on his property, claims that all new interior walls now have to meet certain criteria for sound insulation and therefore require b/regs notification.

I hope you are right and he is wrong.

joe-90 · 25 Jun 2008

Just say you did it years ago. Works for me.

^woody^ · 25 Jun 2008

The guy at work is mistaken.

Ultimate handyman, should probably be renamed penultimatehandyman based on that information

It all depends if the work itself is controlled work.

If the wall is part of a new extension say, then yes it must conform.

If you want to put up a stud wall in your house this evening, then it is not controlled work

GeoffNT · 25 Jun 2008

The Planning Portal seems to suggest that new internal walls whether load-bearing or not need approval.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/genpub/en/1115315234102.html

Quote "Work to provide a new internal wall generally requires approval under the Building Regulations 2000"

Even that quote uses the word "generally" so that it is not conclusive. I have done a fair bit of searching on this and keep getting conflicting answers.

Joe-90. I like your thinking, but we haven't owned it that long!

Guess I should bite the bullet and speak to Building Control. Makes it a bit difficult to plead ignorance after that though.

GeoffNT · 25 Jun 2008

^woody^ said:
If you want to put up a stud wall in your house this evening, then it is not controlled work

Wish I could have put it up in an evening - took me ages!

Richard C · 25 Jun 2008

GeoffNT said:
A guy at work, who is having some work done on his property, claims that all new interior walls now have to meet certain criteria for sound insulation and therefore require b/regs notification.

I hope you are right and he is wrong.

He is wrong with that bit; this only applies to new builds & extensions. You only need to sound insulate a stud wall between a room containing a W/C & another room & even this doesn’t apply to the wall separating an en-suite from the bedroom it serves. So it’s OK for your partner can hear your *arts but not the people in the room next door!

Richard C · 25 Jun 2008

Sorry, forgot to add; I agree with Woody that the only problem I think you’ve got is the lack of a second escape route & lack of either natural (window) or forced ventilation in a habitable room.

GeoffNT · 25 Jun 2008

Richard C said:
Sorry, forgot to add; I agree with Woody that the only problem I think you’ve got is the lack of a second escape route & lack of either natural (window) or forced ventilation in a habitable room.

Thanks Richard.

Could we solve the ventilation problems by removing both new doors and re-fitting the original one? There would then be free movement of air around the whole area. Would this also help the escape route issue? Surely the escape route problem must occur with a lot of en-suites or walk-in wardrobes accessed from a bedroom? Or do they not count as habitable for the purposes of this? Is there a definition of habitable with regard to size/use of room?

Richard C · 25 Jun 2008

GeoffNT said:
Could we solve the ventilation problems by removing both new doors and re-fitting the original one?

You could solve all your problems by doing that but it doesn’t really make 2 useable bedrooms!
Choices for escape;
• Put another door into the new wall from the new bedroom to the large bedroom (as Woody suggested).
• Fit a new window (notifyable) in the small bedroom; which would also take care of the ventilation problem.

Choices for ventilation;
• Fit a new window (notifyable) in the small bedroom; which, with a suitable opening, would also take care of the escape problem.
• Fit a suitable extractor fan.

Personally, I would fit a new window & be done with it; more expensive & for sure but you end up with t proper job.

GeoffNT · 25 Jun 2008

Richard C said:
GeoffNT said:

Could we solve the ventilation problems by removing both new doors and re-fitting the original one?

Click to expand...

You could solve all your problems by doing that but it doesn’t really make 2 useable bedrooms!
Choices for escape;
• Put another door into the new wall from the new bedroom to the large bedroom (as Woody suggested).
• Fit a new window (notifyable) in the small bedroom; which would also take care of the ventilation problem.

Choices for ventilation;
• Fit a new window (notifyable) in the small bedroom; which, with a suitable opening, would also take care of the escape problem.
• Fit a suitable extractor fan.

Personally, I would fit a new window & be done with it; more expensive & for sure but you end up with t proper job.

I would love to be able to solve the problem by fitting a window to bed 2, making it all totally "legit" but there are no external walls in that room.

It's not really possible to fit a door between the 2 bedrooms either as the bed in the main room is on that wall and there is not enough space either side for a door.

So it looks like the only option is to take the new doors off, put the original one back and have it as one bedroom with a seperate wardrobe/changing area. I'm not too unhappy with that as, at one point, I thought I was going to have to take the whole lot down.

Just another thought as an alternative to the above, if I left the door to the new larger bedroom in place, and just removed the one to the small one, making it effectively part of the hallway, would that meet with the regulations or would there still be ventilation/escape issues?

Richard C · 25 Jun 2008

GeoffNT said:
Just another thought as an alternative to the above, if I left the door to the new larger bedroom in place, and just removed the one to the small one, making it effectively part of the hallway, would that meet with the regulations or would there still be ventilation/escape issues?

If you omit both the new door & the wall, as far as I can see it becomes an extension of the hallway &, as such, is not a habitable room. Habitable rooms include dining rooms, lounge, kitchen, study and bedrooms, but specifically excludes WC's, bathrooms, utility rooms, landings and hallways so it all depends on what you intend to use the space for. If it’s just for the occasional sleep over, stick a sofa bed in there but if it’s going to have a proper bed & be used as a bona-fide bedroom than that’s rather stretching the point & it becomes a habitable room. But at the end of the day, whose going to know; you just won’t be able to rent it out or define it as a second bedroom when you come to sell up.

GeoffNT · 26 Jun 2008

Richard C said:
GeoffNT said:

Just another thought as an alternative to the above, if I left the door to the new larger bedroom in place, and just removed the one to the small one, making it effectively part of the hallway, would that meet with the regulations or would there still be ventilation/escape issues?

Click to expand...

If you omit both the new door & the wall, as far as I can see it becomes an extension of the hallway &, as such, is not a habitable room. Habitable rooms include dining rooms, lounge, kitchen, study and bedrooms, but specifically excludes WC's, bathrooms, utility rooms, landings and hallways so it all depends on what you intend to use the space for. If it’s just for the occasional sleep over, stick a sofa bed in there but if it’s going to have a proper bed & be used as a bona-fide bedroom than that’s rather stretching the point & it becomes a habitable room. But at the end of the day, whose going to know; you just won’t be able to rent it out or define it as a second bedroom when you come to sell up.

Thanks again Richard. The reason that this has become an issue is that we are looking to either sell or rent it soon, so need to know what to define the extra room as on the details, without breaking any regulations. Clearly we cannot call it a bedroom due to the issues above. It seems our best bet is to take the new doors off, put the original back on and call the new small room a dressing area within the one bedroom.

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Stud Walls and Building Regs

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