ring main..please help

Frostypops · 29 Sep 2004

Most of the 13a sockets in the house have stopped working, the only ones working in one room upstairs and a single socket for that the TV is on downstairs plus the cooker main.........can anyone make any suggestions for me to have a look at, I've tried all the obvious (no loose wires in consumer unit or mcb's tripped)please help, can't seem to get an electrician to return my calls!!!

big-all · 29 Sep 2004

the only thing i can suggest is turn off all appiances
trip and reset the relivant mcb [or them all if your not shure]
and hope it tripped and didnt show

big all

Frostypops · 29 Sep 2004

Thanks but already tried that, all MCB's also switch off something in house when tripped so there's nothing wrong with them either

Damocles · 29 Sep 2004

Fascinating. Exactly what happened?

Some more details about the house, how many power circuits are there?

Is the one working downstairs immediately below the bedroom which still works, so one or the other might be a spur from above/below?

If there is just one socket ring, then what you describe might be the result of two breaks in a ring. One just happened (why?) and one which has been there undetected for ages. anyone just done any work on the place?

big-all · 29 Sep 2004

you wont belive this

i had just posted my suggestion above
checking through in case of misakes
power goes off power cut of course
but i thought FROSTYPOPS
you could have told me you where
going to trip them

big all

Frostypops · 29 Sep 2004

Don't know how many circuits but there are 4 MCB's.

The room that is working is immediately above the garage where the consumer unit is located. The adjoining room isn't working but it is below the adjoining room that the socket downstairs is working.

We're having no work done at the moment.

Am I right in thinking the following:

1. The power must come up from the garage to the room that's ok and a spur taken to the socket downstairs.

2. We must have 2 breaks or the power would still supply but not in a ring.

3. One of the breaks must be between either the 2 upstairs rooms or the one socket downstairs and the upstairs room that isn't working.

Many thanks for your help!!

plugwash · 29 Sep 2004

Frostypops said:
Don't know how many circuits but there are 4 MCB's.

4 mcbs just for sockets or 4 in total?

Damocles · 30 Sep 2004

Do you know what the mcb are supposed to do. you have 1 cooker, 1 lights still working ? 1 something and one ring?

Did you just imply that the single socket downstairs which is working is next to the garage and consumer unit also?

Assuming there is only one ring, then somehow it goes all over the house. You might get pieces at either end which are working, if it is broken twice. There might be loops around all rooms upstairs and separately around downstairs, or it might go through one floor with spurs up or down to the other floor.

Or it might be a really wierd bodged up setup which might explain how one fault lost so many sockets.

Thing is, chance says only one fault is likely to just happen at a time, but need to assume 2 faults to completely split up a ring.

Most likely fault is a loose wire at a joint. Most joints should be behind sockets. Some may be under floor in junction boxes. Maybe your electrician was not good doing up screws.

Frostypops · 30 Sep 2004

4MCB's in total, as far as I'm aware only one for sockets

plugwash · 30 Sep 2004

if its a ring then my guess is it was a combination of one fault you didn't notice earlier and one fault that has just happened

do you have a multimeter? (if not get one)

how many cables are there into the mcb for the sockets?

does the cable look like modern pvc or does it appear to be some form of rubber?

does the cable have an earth wire?

Damocles · 30 Sep 2004

Would anyone install a CU with mcb but leave rubber cables, or socket wiring with no earth?

I guess they would.

Frostypops · 30 Sep 2004

The MCB's are used as cooker, sockets, lighting and outdoor lighting.

The one socket working downstairs is in the opposite corner of the room to the garage so I think it's likely that this is a spur from upstairs.

I've come to the conclusion that it's likely to be a loose wire behind one of the sockets, the previous owner replaced a lot of sockets with brass ones and we found allsorts of loose connections when decorating so no real surprise there. Thing is I've had almost all sockets off and wiring seems intact.

Is there any way I could isolate the problem by testing for a break using a continuity tester, even if I don't know what routes the wiring takes?

plugwash · 30 Sep 2004

i have heared of fake rewires with pvc T&E from a new CU joined to VIR underfloor using chock block

also remember it could be an old CU with plugins

Damocles · 30 Sep 2004

If you have had the sockets off, then you should know which are spurs (one wire), which are ring (two wires) and which are start of spurs (three wire). This may help identify which sockets make up the ring proper.

But beware of spurs from spurs (also two wires). This is not allowed, but does exist.

People also make cross-linked rings. Not allowed, but there you go.

In general, you need to try to trace the circuit and find the point where it stops working. Fault at last working or first not working socket.

Conceivably something stupid like a cable stuffed under a board which moves, and has finally broken the conductor.

supersparks · 30 Sep 2004

where are you located?

i think your best off getting an electrician in
depending on your area it shouldent be too costly failing that it would atleast be good to get some oppinions.

any number of things could be wrong and 4 mcbs for a whole house sounds like its been a cheep and nasty job

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ring main..please help

supersparks

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