[b]Garge conversion and building regulations[/b]

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Worcestershire
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Having almost completed our garage conversion, the building inspector has asked us to replace the roof as he's not satisfied with the type of insulation, (which has been accepted in some other counties. It is a flat roof fitted with Triso Super 10 insulation). The cost of undertaking these works means that we currently have no alternative but to make the dividing door a fire door and use this room as a non-habitable space, (exempt we think from building regulations) i.e. storage. All other features of the building have been approved by BR. Can anyone inform of any potential problems, now or in the future. Many thanks.
 
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Was the work done on a full plans application or a building notice ?
who informed you to use triso ?
 
It was done through a building notice. Our builder used Triso as he has used it in other counties and it has passed buildings regs. We realise it is not certified for use in flat roofs but the manufacturers say it is fine to use if well ventilated.
 
I think you will find that Tri-ISO does have current approval and should be accepted. There was a recent court ruling which over-ruled the DCLG's directive to local authorities not to accept tri-iso.

Have you fitted this in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines?

Alternatively, the foil can be used with other additional insulation, and you should be able to calculate it performance
 
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Yes, all fitted exactly to manufacturers guidelines but as stated we have fitted it in a flat roof. Our LA would be happy if it was a pitched roof. Our roof is only 15 square metres in size - only half of the garage. Can you tell us where we can find more info about the court ruling. Many thanks
 
They won't/can't stop you using TS10, but you won't get a completion certificate. This will be a problem if you want to sell up. But, as that won't happen in the current climate, that's no problem at all :LOL:.

If, at some point, TS10 and the other multifoils come back in from the cold, so to speak, and are given a U value that the manufacturers claim, then completion certificates will be issued retrospectively. Don't hold your breath over this though, the legal arguments have been chuntering on for over two years and views as to the efficacy of multifoils are somewhat polarised.

The alternative is to retain TS10, with an R value of 1.7 (I think) and supplement this with additional alternative insulation, to get the requisite U value for the roof element; or up the levels of insulation in walls and floors so that the whole structure complies.

Or withdraw the application and use a private approved inspector such as MLM, who allow the use of multifoils; however, they won't usually take it on, if the LA has already been appointed.
 
on a building notice you are at the mercy of your bco. Why did your builder not check out the requirements with bco first, he should have had a inspection done on the insulation elements and passed before they were covered which I assume is your problem.
Is there any way you can ease off the fascia boards to add additional insulation as required ?
 
Thanks for the advice. Not possible to fit insulation as the roof has now ben fully felted and the BI wants us to fit 6" of Kingspan Insulation thus raising the roof considerably. Our builder did'nt check as he (my brother) has done a number of flat roofs with Triso and they have been signed off.
 
Can you tell us where we can find more info about the court ruling. Many thanks

From here as but one example:

There has been a long standing debate regarding the suitability of the 'hot box' test under BS EN ISO 8996:1996 to measure the thermal performance of thin, reflective multi-foil insulation.

These products are not currently covered by any British, International or European standards which in our view fairly measure the thermal performance and reflective properties of these products.

It is for this reason that there are currently two procedures in progress at a European level for establishing an appropriate standard for thin multi-foil insulation:.

* European Technical Approval (ETA) request via a CUAP.

* European Committee for Standardisation (CEN), Workshop 36.

2] CHANGES TO GUIDANCE ON INSULATION (BR 443).

The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG; formerly the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister, the ODPM) introduced a de facto technical regulation, BR 443 'Conventions for U-value Calculations', which was amended in 2006 to make specific reference to the testing of multi-foil insulation products.

Before April 2006, the Building Regulation regime made it easier for Building Control Bodies to accept thermal insulation products which had been tested using methods other than the 'hot box', particularly if alternative test methods, and the results obtained from them, had been certified by reputable independent bodies.

However, the 2006 edition of BR 443 stated that the 'hot box' can be used to test the thermal performance of multi-foil insulation.

As a consequence of this action by the DCLG, the LABC issued a guidance note to Building Control Bodies advising that thin multi-foil insulation should only be accepted on the basis of the results given by a 'hot box' test.

3] CONSEQUENCES FOR ACTIS.

As a consequence of these events, ACTIS found itself operating in a market which was severely restricted.

Even though the Approved Documents and BR 443 are guidance documents, their effect is such that only products that comply with them are automatically presumed to fulfil the requirements of the Building Regulations.

Whilst BCBs could, and still can, continue to use their discretion to approve products that are tested in other ways and which do not benefit from the automatic presumption of compliance, this became more difficult following the 2006 amendment of BR 443.

Understandably, BCBs felt that the guidance limited their discretion in some way.

Therefore, following the 2006 amendments to BR 443, the use of products which offer an excellent solution for the retrofitting of insulation in existing buildings, which might not otherwise have their energy efficiency improved to the required levels (for example where the only alternative might be more conventional insulation products which require more space) became more difficult.

ACTIS opposed the 2006 amendments to BR 443, both in substance and on the basis that the multi-foil sector had not been involved in its preparation, whereas trade associations which included a number of traditional insulation manufacturers had been involved, and had largely funded, this process.

4] THE JUDICIAL REVIEW.

ACTIS brought Judicial Review proceedings against the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government and, on Friday 2 November 2007, the Administrative Court found in favour of ACTIS in these proceedings.

As a result of these proceedings, the provisions of the 2006 version of BR 443 which relate to multi-foil products have been declared inapplicable and unenforceable.

Two key issues which led the Court to find in favour of ACTIS on the question of BR 443 were as follows:.

(i) the DCLG did not notify the 2006 version of BR 443 to the European Commission as required by the Technical Standards Directive, which seeks to reduce barriers to trade within the internal market.

(ii) the DCLG failed to consult the multi-foil insulation sector before the drafting was carried out.

The DCLG did this even though it was aware that the subject was under debate, and in the knowledge that the redrafting of the guidance document was largely funded by trade organisations (namely the CPA and TIMSA) whose members include direct competitors of the multi-foil industry.

Importantly, the DCLG had initially agreed to grant certain multi-foil manufacturers, including ACTIS, a derogation period to allow them to obtain an ETA and CE marking, during which time the provisions of BR 443 relating to multi-foil products, would not apply.

The DCLG subsequently withdrew this derogation period, without notice and without explanation, in a manner which the Court found to be conspicuously unfair and in breach of a legitimate expectation that the derogation period would be honoured.

The DCLG will soon circulate a letter confirming to BCBs that they are entitled to use their discretion to accept or reject products tested using methods other than the hot-box if they wish to do so.

Products tested in other ways can still be accepted, just as they were before the 2006 amendments to the regime: they are simply not automatically accepted in the same way as products tested using the hot-box.
 
Thanks for the advice. Not possible to fit insulation as the roof has now ben fully felted and the BI wants us to fit 6" of Kingspan Insulation thus raising the roof considerably. Our builder did'nt check as he (my brother) has done a number of flat roofs with Triso and they have been signed off.
Can you not go underneath the joists with a PUR board?
 
Thanks everyone for all the help. Not sure what a PUR board is but will pass on all info to the builder and see what steps we should take next.
 
6" is way over the top. Has the ceiling already been boarded and skimmed? I did a u-value check last week for a flat warm roof and 80mm was just in. If triso is already in place 25mm will bring it up to regs. Your bco must be very keen as we usually give a bit of tolerance on conversions.
 
Thanks everyone for all the help. Not sure what a PUR board is but will pass on all info to the builder and see what steps we should take next.
Polyurethane board - Kingspan, Cellotex etc.
 
I agree, but I think the real issue is that they just don't like Triso being used on flat roofs. Thanks and i'll pass on all info to the builder
 
Can't see what the difference is, but no doubt some theory buff would come up with some maths to "prove" his case for only using it on a pitched roof.
 

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