Bedding for patio

Joined
23 Mar 2007
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
Fife
Country
United Kingdom
Hi all - I'm building a patio, and having moved tonnes of earth, poured lots of concrete and built a few low retaining walls to level and contain the site, I'm ready to add the bedding and lay the paving slabs on top. I'd planned to follow what I'd read in books and online, and basically have a few inches of compacted hardcore, a few inches of sharp sand, and then the slabs seated on a few blobs of mortar.

However, I never really felt sure about the bed of sand and blobs of mortar - it didn't sound that solid to me. So I'm glad I had a quick read here and found that people were advising using a full, 2 inch bed of wet mortar over hardcore. That sounds much better.

However, all my wall heights have been calculated assuming that I'd be laying the slabs on a relatively thin (ie: not 2 inches) blobs of mortar on top of something solid. Laying the slabs on top of 2 inches of wet mortar could get messy, as the top of that 2 inches would be slightly above my levels.

So my question is - would there be any problems with pouring a 2 inch concrete pad (on top of the hardcore) up to the level I'd intended to have sand to, and after it's set, bed the paving slabs on a thin (approx 1/2 inch) bed of mortar?

My initial instinct had been to pour a concrete pad anyway, but folk had said that the sand allowed for drainage. Given that the slabs have to be fully pointed I couldn't see any water getting through anyway, and since the patio slopes away from the house, it would run off regardless...
 
Sponsored Links
you don't need to use sand under slabs, lay them straight on to the hardcore.
 
Nope, no hardcore laid - that's the point up to. I was planning to get the hardcore delivered, alonge with a wacker plate, for the weekend. But I've got that on hold until I've got a clear idea what I'm doing (which could take a while, I admit) :)

Marshman - I assume that there would be something (mortar?) between the slabs and the hardcore, otherwise wouldn't it be a bit uneven?
 
Sponsored Links
so as things are at the moment, what is the measurement between present ground level and your finished level?
 
6 inches / 150mm, including the thickness of the slabs (which are 38mm from memory). The base is pretty compact, as it already has a lot of legacy hardcore in it from the previous garden decorations...
 
put down a 75mm bed of mot type 1 (scalpings) that can be compacted down and will be a very flat surface to place the slabs on. you can then bed them on a wet bed of mortar with no problems.
 
Great - so in that context, the mortar bed would be 150-75-38 = 37mm thick, right? If so, that sounds sensible, and doesn't involve any sand (apart from what's in the mortar I suppose), so that's what I'll do!

Coming back to original question about the concrete though - would it be any different if that 37mm bed of mortar was instead 25mm of concrete (the pad, left to set) with 12mm of mortar on top to bed the slabs in? Is there some desirable attribute of mortar (porosity?) that is not provided by concrete in this case?

I'm pretty new to this (can u tell :) ), but it feels to me that it'll be easier laying the slabs if I've got a solid pad to work. Plus, it'll be much easier to lay out the slabs before bedding them down and getting the wife's approval of the pattern... I'm sure I've seen patio's done this way in other countries...

Thanks for all help, it is very much appreciated...
 
You didn't say what type of paving you are planning to use but I guess like the rest of the world it will be Indian sandstone. Nowadays most people use a cad package to generate a random pattern instead of lumping stones all over the place.
If the patio is for foot traffic only you can use a 10:1 sand-cement wet mix with a drop of plasticizer to aid workability. Normally 50mm is what I use for bed thickness with this mix but if you increase the mix strength you might be able to use a thinner bed.
 
Good point - I didn't mention the paving type. It's Marshalls yorkstone paving slabs (ie: fake stone). Brochure says that it must be bedded on mortar and fully pointed with mortar too...

I had simply planned to use a few different sizes (300x300, 450x300, etc), to avoid a "repeating squares" look...
 
keep it simple. when the mot is compacted down, it will give a smooth level hard surface to work off of. a 25mm bed of concrete is pointless and difficult to achieve. it will also break up over time.

1:10 will be too weak a mix for wet laying the slabs on.
 
Ok, I hear ya. 1:6 mortar mix then? And using sharp sand for the mortar, rather than builders sand?
 
we use building sand on a thin bed, some use sharp, its up to you really!
 
4 (sharp): 2 (building): 1 (cement) is a pretty good mix, it's nicer and easier to use than just sharp sand & cement and stronger than just building sand & cement. We use it on most paving jobs.

It translates to approximately 8 sharp, 4 building and half a bag of OPC in the mixer, mixed semi-wet. Nice and easy to tap down :)
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top