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Garage flat roof replacement

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NikkiC

from United Kingdom

Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Hertfordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:12 pm Reply with quote

I've employed a roofer to replace a corrugated garage roof which was leaking. I really don't know much about roofing and have been watching every step of this roofer's progress with interest. He has installed rafters to which he has screwed a layer of 3/4" plywood. Yesterday, he painted the plywood with a bitumen type paint. Today, he applied a self-adhesive roofing felt directly on to the plywood and used a heat gun to seal the felt to the brickwork. Does this sound right? Personally, it doesn't look very leak-proof to me.



Please check below for the end product:
http://www.garageprojects.net/Garage/

Nikki


Last edited by NikkiC on Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:28 pm, edited 2 times in total
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noseall

from United Kingdom

Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:56 pm Reply with quote

Xenon is gonna love this one! icon_lol.gif

surely the job is not finished?

personally i'm a little suspicious of torch-on products. i like to see the pitch boiler going and the three layer system fitted.

the copings need removing, a chase needs grinding out on the high parapet and a lead flashing installed all round. whether this is enough to weather the shoddy felt job is another matter.
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NikkiC

from United Kingdom

Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Hertfordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:24 pm Reply with quote

noseall wrote:

surely the job is not finished?


The are returning tomorrow morning to complete the "job", but the "job" includes tiling 10 sqr metres of garage, laying 4 sqr metres of patio and installing the guttering. That doesn't give enough time remaining to complete the job as you have described.

When I asked the roofer how he was bonding the felt to the brickwork, he replied saying mastic and pointed to the self-adhesive felt. He then took out a hair dryer and proceeded to blow dry the felt to the wall. I was completely taken aback and even embarrased to question this doubtful method of application. Sorry, but I'm trying extremely hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. They were recommended by family friends.. I presume he failed to mention the lead flashing as that would be done as a matter of course. I've have been studying many articles about roofing over the last year, but I seem to have overlooked the alternative comprehensive manual for roofers they are following. Can these roofers be so naive as to believe that stickytaping felt to the brickwork is enough? Can they be so naive as to think I'm so naive as to think...well, you get it.

noseall wrote:

the copings need removing, a chase needs grinding out on the high parapet and a lead flashing installed all round. whether this is enough to weather the shoddy felt job is another matter.


Intuitively, the felting looks rubbish. Could you put into words what is actually wrong with it?

I will confront them tomorrow about the rest of the work. I keep asking myself that there needs to be a better system than this. I shouldn't have to be constantly at their heels and questioning their work and spend hours reasearching how to build a house from scratch so that I'm not fleeced for every penny I own and in return left with shoddy work that a lot of their naive customers would deem absolutely and perfectly acceptable.

I see this forum will be a very valuable resource.

Nikki
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noseall

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:52 pm Reply with quote

it looks to me like they think they are felting a shed! icon_eek.gif
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NikkiC

from United Kingdom

Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Hertfordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:05 am Reply with quote

Below is a conversation I had with them this morning. Does this sound like a legitimate way of leak-proofing a roof? Would it work?

Builder1: We're finishing your roof.
Me: What needs to be finished on the roof?
Builder2: We need to trim it all, basically. Put another flashing over the top.
Me: So you need to grind?
Builder1: No.
Me: You're not grinding into the wall?
Builder2: The felt sticks to the wall.
Me: You're not going to put in lead flashing?
Builder2: You don't need it with felt.
Me: So what do you need to do to finish the roof then?
Builder1: The same sort of thing but use the felt, basically, because it laps up the wall and you cover from...so it laps up that way and then you cover back down this way, so no moisture can get through there. We do it all the time.
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noseall

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 7:22 pm Reply with quote

a good job would be to chase in a lead 'cover' flashing into the wall and point with mortar or 'leadmate'. this is the best method because it behaves independently to the roof covering and is not subject to any roof movement.

an adequate job would be to chase the felt into the wall and point with mortar or 'leadmate'.

a shoddy job would b to just stick it to the wall and hope. icon_rolleyes.gif
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js.roofing

from United Kingdom

Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 47
Location: Hampshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:36 pm Reply with quote

Nikki,

Sorry to have to say this but, they weren't roofers that you have employed, by the looks of it - a team of diy enthusiasts at best. I don't know that many roofers that lay patios either. It doesn't look good at all, and the inch gaps on the overlaps at the upstands are a joke! As 'nose' says they need to fit a lead flashing into the wall, you can't really mastic felt to a wall and call it a good job done, How many layers of felt did they put down? Should be two minimum, did you not get in writing a quote detailing the scope of works, materials, method etc? I would be surprised to hear this roof doesn't leak. As for what to say to them, it's a shoddy job, totally incorrectly done, the upstands should be fitted as seperate items as well, the felt isn't stuck properly as you can see the gap on the overlap at upstands due to it not being done the right way. I can't see them giving a guarantee for this shoddy work either.
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NikkiC

from United Kingdom

Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Hertfordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:59 pm Reply with quote

I just had a full report from a professional builder and the whole job is a joke. Unfortunately, I paid them.


Last edited by NikkiC on Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:17 am, edited 2 times in total
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Deluks

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:52 am Reply with quote

Beware any firm that has the word "& sons" in the company name.
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NikkiC

from United Kingdom

Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Hertfordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:06 am Reply with quote

The link below is to a website that showcases this company's work. The website is a rough first draft and is unfinished. Please feel free to leave comments amd suggestions.

http://www.ncasali.demon.co.uk/Garage/
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Deluks

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:18 am Reply with quote

Commiserations icon_cry.gif

When you first met them and they came round to look at the roof, did you get any alarm bells ringing in your head as to their competence?

similarly, what was it about them that made you think "these are the right guys for this job"
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NikkiC

from United Kingdom

Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Hertfordshire,
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:11 pm Reply with quote

Deluks wrote:
Commiserations icon_cry.gif

When you first met them and they came round to look at the roof, did you get any alarm bells ringing in your head as to their competence?

similarly, what was it about them that made you think "these are the right guys for this job"


Builder N redid the electrics in my house in 2003 to a presumed satisfactory standard. The chasing in the walls left a bit of a decorating mess but that was expected. The electrics have been working fine. He was recommended to me by his uncle.

Builder N recently set up a building business with his partner M. Builder M appears to be able to lay bricks satisfactorily. From evidence, he may be only trained as a bricklayer. Builder N continually asked builder M for advice. Obviously, it can now be seen that builder N has had absolutely no training in any area of the building trade. My garage became the training ground.

I thought these guys were the right ones because they were recommended to me by his uncle. His uncle is a first class, multiskilled builder. I mistakenly believed that, or was led to believe, that builders M and N were of the same calibre of N's uncle. It is now apparent that N's uncle had taken it on faith that his nephew was a competent builder. He had not seen any his work until now. N's uncle was completely mortified when I invited him over to assess his work.

When I verbally passed on the scathing report to them over the phone their reply was "We thought you were happy with the work." I had questioned their methods on many occasions and they satisfied me with convincing excuses. I was tolerant of the trivial shortcomings so long as the major parts were fit for purpose. It was only when I started investigating in further detail and received an independent review of the work undertaken that it was obvious that their excuses were purely a means to avoid completing the work to a satisfactory standard. I'm not a roofer, tiler nor builder.
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Deluks

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:02 am Reply with quote

NikkiC wrote:
I'm not a roofer, tiler nor builder.


Even so, I'd rather let you loose on my home over those guys any day!
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danielroofer

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:36 pm Reply with quote

You need to give bbc rogue traders a call followed by trading standards. I work in the building trade and have seen dodgy work by other ppl but this is one of the worst. Even a simpleton could do better than this. These ppl are not tradesman but there shoddy work gives us all a bad name.
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NikkiC

from United Kingdom

Joined: 26 Nov 2008
Posts: 32
Location: Hertfordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:54 pm Reply with quote

danielroofer wrote:
You need to give bbc rogue traders a call followed by trading standards. I work in the building trade and have seen dodgy work by other ppl but this is one of the worst. Even a simpleton could do better than this. These ppl are not tradesman but there shoddy work gives us all a bad name.


If someone could give me a very good get out clause to get me out of the clause that states that one must give these guys a second chance at correcting their mistakes then I'd entertain the idea.

It's now been months since they finished that rubbish work and I'm still in the process of sending letters back and forth to lock them into a tight legal corner so that when they do come back they have to correct the work at a satisfactory level otherwise I sue.

I have a surveyor's report to back up my case. I had to lay out on the report at my own cost. Until they correct their work I will leave their business name and address on my website with all the photographic evidence. What, they're going to sue me for defamation?

Thanks for the support. It's so depressing! icon_sad.gif

One more thing... We're all terrified of hiring tradesmen, because of people like this. We leave our properties in disrepair or we try to do it ourselves, diy.

Nikki
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