Advice on new roof - Semi Detached

meso100 · 2 Feb 2009

Hi, im new to the site and im looking for some advice. My situation is below, sorry for the length of it.

I have a 1940's semi detached house in Lancs.

The property has a hipped roof, with concrete tiles (i think). There is no felt lining and you can see daylight through some of the tiles when you are in the loft.

My problems are:

The house is ALWAYS cold, the walls are freezing and condensation is a massive problem. The bedroom and bathroom have the most condensation and subsequently mold has appeared on the ceiling and the walls.

The bedroom is of major concern as the walls have been wet to touch at times. I applied for cavity wall and loft insulation through a government site and the surveyor has come and inspected the property. He confirmed the house has no cavity wall insulation (even though my homebuyer survey said there was evidence of foam insulation) and the loft insulation was 25mm (apparently it should be 11inches?). He thought that as the walls were that wet i.e. water has run down the walls and left water marks all over, that this was not JUST condendsation but actual rain water coming in.

I was advised by the surveyor that he could not put loft insulation in as the bedroom ceiling was cracked and looked weak and apparently couldnt take the weight..., and he cannot do the cavity wall because the bedroom walls are wet and the cause needs to be rectified first.

I have had two roofers inspect the house and they both confirm the roof is rubbish and has to be completely renewed.

1. Quoted me £2.5k (excl scaffolding) for a new tile roof
2. Quoted £4k - £4.5k for new roof (tiles and dry ridge tiles), gutters, facias etc (includes scaffolding)

The second quote to me sounds a better one for me, as he has included everything I need, plus I get a good 'vibe' from the firm.

My questions are:

1. does circa £4k sound right for a 2 bedroom semi (hipped roof) plus guttering etc?

2. is the surveyor right that I need to sort out the causes of the problems before having the insulation fitted? I agree I need a new ceiling, and thats not a problem for me, but im worried that I might get a new roof/guttering and cavity wall insulation and the problem still be there.

Many thanks for any advice

Kindest regards

DAZB · 3 Feb 2009

You don't mention if you have any heating or ventilation in the affected rooms as this makes a massive difference. Can you give us some more info as to what heatingyou have, is it double glazed, do you have any airbricks, is the party wall affected as badly as the externals ? etc,etc. Regarding the roof price , I would say the second one is better value .

meso100 · 3 Feb 2009

Thanks for your comments.

The bedroom has 2 timber double glazed widows and one large radiator. There are no visible vents in the room and not sure how to check for what you say (I'm rubbish at this stuff). The windows themselves have suffered from damp codensation and mould and im wonderin if it's best to get upvc d/glazing too. During the day the windows are opened but this makes little difference.

Only the two outward facing walls are affected. The property is rendered and seems ok.

The bathroom is similar, one upvc dg window, one radiator and no extractor. Mould is mainly on the room and Walls.

DAZB · 3 Feb 2009

Ventilation needs to be one of your first concerns. The bathroom needs a fan that comes on with the light and has an over-run facility to clear the steam once you have left the room. You will find that it most probably will have had an airbrick that has been rendered over externally and covered internally so it might be worth looking at your neighbours houses to see if and where it is.That would then make it easier to install a fan in that position as the hole is already made. Same for the bedroom (the airbrick , not the fan) . If you have a chimney breast in the room there should ideally be an air vent on that and if not then it would be a good place to install one. Double glazing would help also as it would raise the general temperature of the room and maybe rather than having the heating on and off at intervals try it for a few weeks on but on a lower setting via the TRV on the rad just to regulate the room temp. That will at least give you some feedback on wether your walls improve .

noseall · 3 Feb 2009

if the the roof tiles aren't leaking then they aren't letting in water - simple.

if it is only the outside walls that are the problem and they are of cavity construction then it would be logical to assume it is a condensation issue.

cwi or batten/d&d, celotex or kingspan foam inso' board from the inside.

take down ceilings, re-inforce ceiling where necessary and fix 12.5mm foil back boards and skim.

fit 300mm insulation to the loft.

mechanical vent bathroom.

new upvc windows plus trickles.

don't dry clothes on the radiators.

mechanical vent kitchen.

meso100 · 3 Feb 2009

I have no light in the loft but have taken my camera up and tried to give you an idea of whats up there:

Outside of the house, I cant really give you any better pictures of the tiles as I dont have a ladder to get up there:

With regards to bedroom ventillation:

Here are a set of wardrobes which have been kind of mounted over a vent.

Bedroom ceiling cracks:

Bedroom ceiling mould and condensation:

Corner of the bedroom ceiling:

There is a vent on the outside of the wall to the bedroom but once again this seems to have been plastered over:

Bathroom ceiling (mould/cracked):

Corner of the bathroom ceiling inside (plastered over a vent).

Finally, the bedroom windows are made of wood, and are rotting. I have cleaned mould of the inside of the window before and dont know if UPVC will be a better replacement:

Sorry for the huge post (let me know if it takes ages to load and ill remove the pics).

Thanks for all comments received so far.

Alastairreid · 3 Feb 2009

looks like belgian clay pan tiles on your roof (they last forever but the nails dont).
from what i can see it all looks to be condensation.
are those water tanks in the loft covered?.
open the wall vents.
make sure your loft is well insulated min 250mm.
if you are getting new windows make sure they have trickle vents.
open your windows............think ventilation.
install soffit vents if you dont already have them.
make sure your loft hatch is properly sealed.

And finally follow all the good advice given above.
good luck.

meso100 · 3 Feb 2009

alastairreid said:
looks like belgian clay pan tiles on your roof (they last forever but the nails dont).
from what i can see it all looks to be condensation.
are those water tanks in the loft covered?.
open the wall vents.
make sure your loft is well insulated min 250mm.
if you are getting new windows make sure they have trickle vents.
open your windows............think ventilation.
install soffit vents if you dont already have them.
make sure your loft hatch is properly sealed.

And finally follow all the good advice given above.
good luck.

Hi

No those water tanks are not needed, they are old and I have a combi boiler installed.

I think they are full of water, but obviously I cant remove them. Could they cause me problems in the future?

What im trying to fathom is, do I get the roof done and make it up to current standards? I would be gutted if I installed loft insulation replastered the bedroom, new ceiling etc (maybe new guttering) and then in a few years time the roof fail me and leak. All the hard work and money has then gone to waste.

With regards to the vents, is it merely a case of taking out the plaster so that the vents are not covered?

Alastairreid · 3 Feb 2009

No those water tanks are not needed, they are old and I have a combi boiler installed.

I think they are full of water, but obviously I cant remove them. Could they cause me problems in the future?

.

the tanks should be emptied the water evaporates causing a lot of condensation.

What im trying to fathom is, do I get the roof done and make it up to current standards? I would be gutted if I installed loft insulation replastered the bedroom, new ceiling etc (maybe new guttering) and then in a few years time the roof fail me and leak. All the hard work and money has then gone to waste.

.

roofing is my original trade 30yrs. i personaly think the tiles on your roof have a bit more life left in them yet. if it were my roof i would get my hip and ridge tiles re-beded, and the leadwork around the chimney checked.
as i said before they are clay tiles and have a far longer life span than modern concrete.

unblock all vents which are covered over.

imo i would be getting new windows, insulation loft and wall before considering a new roof.

noseall · 3 Feb 2009

i notice you have raked ceilings (slopey corners), these are particularly prone to cold-bridge-condensation and are rarely adequately insulated.

only a minimum of 75-100mm celotex or kingspan, with maybe 25mm underdraw will prevent any future cold bridging.

there is little defence from the cold in these areas.

meso100 · 3 Feb 2009

noseall said:
i notice you have raked ceilings (slopey corners), these are particularly prone to cold-bridge-condensation and are rarely adequately insulated.

only a minimum of 75-100mm celotex or kingspan, with maybe 25mm underdraw will prevent any future cold bridging.

there is little defence from the cold in these areas.

Thanks and sorry for being dumb. Is the celotex and kingspan a type of loft insulation or is this something further I need to add? Would a new ceiling in the bathroom need to be installed?

Is there a way of converting them from raked or is that the way it has to be? I take it putting a lowered false ceiling underneath is not going to deal with the problem but just cover it up?

meso100 · 3 Feb 2009

alastairreid";p="1127629 said:
roofing is my original trade 30yrs. i personaly think the tiles on your roof have a bit more life left in them yet. if it were my roof i would get my hip and ridge tiles re-beded, and the leadwork around the chimney checked.
as i said before they are clay tiles and have a far longer life span than modern concrete.

unblock all vents which are covered over.

imo i would be getting new windows, insulation loft and wall before considering a new roof.

Click to expand...

Just had a firm around that has quoted me £1830 for:

Bay window (led diamond) Pilk K 6 X 600 windows
2 bedroom window (led diamond) Pilk K
1 small side window Pilk K

All Rose/White (including cills and new ledges)

He said their windows dont have trickle vents but similar ones called night vents which I can open and close at my desire.

Does this sound a decent price and are night vents adequate?

Many thanks guys

Alastairreid · 3 Feb 2009

hi,
yes that sounds like a really good price to me.

as long as the windows have vents i would go for it.

meso100 · 12 Feb 2009

Update

I have had quotes for the roof ranging from £3,800 - £4,500.

Money is an issue at the moment and i decided to buy loft insulation last week (£60 worth and now B&Q say they will say from tomorrow it will be £1 per roll!! This is the story of my life) and get some cavity insulation as I have been told its a condensation issue.

I have been up in the loft today and there is 25mm of loft insulation and felt over the top. The felt is damp and has many wet patches (no puddles).

As it rained today I went up and found 6 broken tiles, not in one particular place. Conisdering my roof is over 70 yrs old, is it now time to get a new roof? I want to decorate the bedrooms but im scared eventually water will penetrate the ceiling.

Is it likely, I could get a decent job done on a reroof for under £3.8k, or do I need to wake up and smell the coffee?

Many thanks

Alastairreid · 12 Feb 2009

Get more quotes!
you should be looking at the 3k mark.

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Advice on new roof - Semi Detached

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