Supply to third floor and other questions

Bit of a long one so please bear with me.

Right, went to look at a job today.

3rd floor flat, formerly a house.

Client requires basic re-wire, no issues there.

Problem 1.

The Incomer and meter for all the flats are in the cellar, access to the cellar is through the ground floor flat

I have not been able to identify how the 'tails' for the flat CU arrive at the flat other than leaving a double pole switch in the cellar is a 10mm T&E that runs up the side of the cellar steps and then who knows where, until it arrives at the CU in the flat!!!!

Now from the make up of the building running tails is going to be a very complicated problem.

What I would like to do is go through the back wall up the outside of the house and into the flat (approx. 20 - 25m).

Q.

How can I achieve this,what type of cable would/is suitable for running in this route, what mechanical protection should I use externally, is likely to be cost effective?


Problem2.

The property, that is all 3 flats, each have a heat detector in the kitchen with a break glass, these are all interlinked to a fire alarm panel, with 'bells' in the communal halls.

it makes sense to me that this set up should stay rather then go, however, should the flats 'new to be' smoke alarm system be interlinked in with this?
Should the present set up be updated? It does seem a little odd to me that such a set up was implemented.


Sorry for going on, but, i need your experiences and knowledge chaps.

TBO, i've never seen anything like it!!!

Running up the outside of the building is often the only viable soloution in this sort of scenario.

Something like split concentric, SWA or pyro would be best, and wouldn't need any additional mechanical protection.

As for the fire alarm, that is a tricky one.

Who owns the building / communal areas?

Cheers Rob.

The Free hold is owned by the ground floor flat, the 2nd floor is rented and the 3rd floor is owned by the client.

No management company!!!!

All are equally responsible for the communal areas, and by all accounts quite happy to stump up for work required.

Flats are usually constructed as their own 'fire box'.

IE, fire doors etc etc between flats.

You then treat each flat as a dwelling, and have interlinked mains/battery detectors INEDPENDENTLY within each flat.

The firealarm system then just has detection in the communal areas with a single heat detector in the hallway of the flat. Sounders in the flats bedrooms and hallway to ensure correct dB at beadhead.

This is how we have always done flats through specs from various different people.

As for the submain - Split con. If you think the split con is vunerable to damage, get some black cable capping (U shape). I don't have a link, I get it from the wholesaler.

Obviously the best soloution would be to install a proper fire alarm system throughout the building, but this is going to cost all the owners, and possibly be more disruption that they would be willing to put up with, especially if their flats are fully decorated etc.

Then there is the issue of someone burning the toast and turfing the other two flats out of bed (although this shouldn't happen with a properly designed system).

You could maybe look at just installing smoke alarms into your flat and onto the communal landings, and possibly even wire them in FP200 so they could possibly be upgraded to part of a proper fire alarm in the future?

The best thing to do might be to give the local fire prevention officer a call, and invite him round to suggest what is the best soloution in their opinion.

Oh and I'd second split con for the submains

It has long been advised not to install a full system through a block of flats unless you go for a staged system which only sounds the sounders in the flat concerned until a second detector is triggered, or a breakglass operated.

The cheap and crappy rafaki panels can do this if you get the correct model, but most flats (certainly around here) simply comply to what I have mentioned above.


I third the split con (and forth......fith)

Cheers Lec.

This place is not constructed as a 'fire box' the 'front' doors of each flat are, well, crap!!!!.

So just to clarify, i would intsall smoke & heat as per normal in the flat.

The communal areas should then have heat/smoke detectors connected to the fire panel.

The Hall of each flat should also have a heat detector and sounder.

A zoned panel with a zone for each level may be an option.

However access to it would be needed for each flat to silence it.

Problem being though if downstairs reset an alarm without checking, and top floor is on fire!

Thanks for all that chaps. Split Con seems popular, a rough idea of price per metre anyone? Just trying to rough cost it tonight

Just one thing on the split con.

How the hell do you terminate all those piddly little bits into the the CU isolator????

Henley?? then tails ????

cut them to length, strip them and twist together to make a nice solid mass that you can put in the terminal.

Some nice pics from lec at http://www.askthetrades.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1096466372

Last split con I got was within a few pence the same price as SWA

Another NICE job Rob

Like the effect of the twisted neutrals!!!