single pipe heating systems with combi boilers

littleswadds · 31 Jul 2009

I was wondering if anyone can help me gather some information to back an argument I have with my council.

Last year my local council did some upgrading to the local houses, one of these upgrades was to replace the old central heating systems from single pipe to dual pipe, the back boilers to combis and all of the original 40's radiators to new radiators. As I had had a combi boiler installed roughly 5yr ago they refused to change my heating system and radiators as they said that it should all be changed at the same time (boiler and pipe work) so I am currently stuck with the single pipe system and ancient radiators. My cousin is a plumber and when he came to fit a radiator in my bathroom he was shocked to see what system I have in place which has lead me to try and find out if I have any argument for having it all replaced.

I have read other posts on this forum that are relevant to this topic and I gather that it is not reccomended to use this system, why is that? As much as my radiators do heat up my house doesn't, is this due to the system? Is it energy efficient, or am I spending money I don't need to? Does anyone know of anywhere I can find reference material that I can show to back me up?

Apologies for this very long rambling message and I would be very grateful for any help or information anyone can give me.

Steve69the69Gas · 31 Jul 2009

Single pipe systems IMO are problematical. The man Do It All can tell you chapter & verse.
I would change to 2 pipe + new rads = more efficient.

As to who pays ????

Nige F · 31 Jul 2009

littleswadds said:
40's radiators to new radiators. As I had had a combi boiler installed roughly 5yr ago they refused to change my heating system and radiators as they said that it should all be changed at the same time (boiler and pipe work) .

So why didn`t they change it all 5 years ago

They, like most councils ..Post Thatcher sell off ...are Still faffing about with trying to run a decent repair sceme . Apparently " Basher" Prescott decreed that there should be new kitchens etc. every few years. " Decent Homes " legislation you could try googling that

And your existing is WAY inefficient. They deserve a good drubbing. Their attitude to tenants sounds like it used to be in the 60`s when the poxy rent collector used to look down her nose at us - every week

Good Luck to you.

Agile · 31 Jul 2009

Single pipe systems can and do work very well and are the normal systems for large commercial buildings.

However, they were often used for economy and a small house was run from a single pipe of only 15 mm which is too small to give much heat output.

The other problem of a single pipe is that the rads get cooler towards the return. With a flow of 82 C and a return of 71 C thats not too much of a problem. However, modern boilers are designed for a flow of 70 C and that would mean a return of 50-60 C which would give very cool bedrooms.

This problem explained by the OP is primarily one of council policy. From a technical point of view the system should be upgraded to bring it up to current standards. However, if its working well then there is no outstanding argument for needing to make any changes.

Tony

D_Hailsham · 31 Jul 2009

Find out who your local Councillor is and get him involved.

D_Hailsham · 31 Jul 2009

Agile said:
This problem explained by the OP is primarily one of council policy.

Or is it that they have placed a contract with a company for a job lot of complete change of boiler and system in every house and would end up paying the same for just changing the pipes and radiators?

The OP needs to find out exactly why they are refusing to change his system. I agree, however that a properly designed single pipe system will do almost as good a job as a two-pipe.

Nige F · 31 Jul 2009

Agree with you guys , on the merits of 1 pipers. But was installing el Crappos for a local council on some new builds back in the mid 70`s . To their spec. Not good

mickyg · 31 Jul 2009

As long as the heating works I don't see what the problem is. Your not paying for it remember

simond · 31 Jul 2009

exactly.

D_Hailsham · 31 Jul 2009

mickyg said:
As long as the heating works I don't see what the problem is. Your not paying for it remember

I think you have missed the point.

The OP's landlord, the council, is replacing other tenants' old boiler and single pipe systems with new condensing boiler and twin pipe systems. For some reason they will not replace just his single pipe system because his boiler was a few five years ago. Where's the logic in that?

He may not have to pay for the system to be changed, but he still has to pay his own gas bill - or did you think that was included in the rent?

simond · 31 Jul 2009

With my taxpayer's hat on, I don't condone a council changing out a 5 yr old boiler just because older ones in the area are being renewed.

And when was the last time you argued on this forum that a 5yr old working boiler should be changed?

mickyg · 31 Jul 2009

D_Hailsham said:
mickyg said:

As long as the heating works I don't see what the problem is. Your not paying for it remember

Click to expand...

I think you have missed the point.

The OP's landlord, the council, is replacing other tenants' old boiler and single pipe systems with new condensing boiler and twin pipe systems. For some reason they will not replace just his single pipe system because his boiler was a few five years ago. Where's the logic in that?

He may not have to pay for the system to be changed, but he still has to pay his own gas bill - or did you think that was included in the rent?

I'm not missing any point. As long as they have a safe and functional heating system there is no issue. Its irrelevant what mrs jones has got.
The logic is saving taxpayers money in a recession, instead of upgrading everyones system every few years because there's something more efficient available.
Wow he pays his own gas bill well thats a gem of info, cheers for that.
Guess what i pay mine too. incredible.

D_Hailsham · 31 Jul 2009

simond said:
With my taxpayer's hat on, I don't condone a council changing out a 5 yr old boiler just because older ones in the area are being renewed.

Neither do I. In any case the OP is not asking for his boiler to be changed; just that his pipework is chnaged from single-pipe to two-pipe.

And when was the last time you argued on this forum that a 5yr old working boiler should be changed?

Never, and I am not advocating it in this instance.

simond · 31 Jul 2009

Fair enough, D_H, I may have misunderstood your comments to include the boiler change.

But I can't see why the OP should expect to have his one pipe changed either. And I can't see where his gas savings will come from if he does so.

You recommend getting a local councillor involved. For what purpose?

D_Hailsham · 31 Jul 2009

mickyg said:
As long as they have a safe and functional heating system there is no issue. It's irrelevant what mrs jones has got.
The logic is saving taxpayers money in a recession, instead of upgrading everyones system every few years because there's something more efficient available.

Then, using your logic, they would not replace any system. Which begs the question: why are they replacing all the other tenants' systems?

Wow he pays his own gas bill well thats a gem of info, cheers for that. Guess what i pay mine too. incredible.

You wrote: "As long as the heating works I don't see what the problem is. Your not paying for it remember."

I took that to mean that you thought he was not paying for the heating. If you are saying that you meant he was not paying for the heating system, I can't see what relevance that has to your first sentence. Its a non sequitur.

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single pipe heating systems with combi boilers

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