Joists from a previous roof, are they now none structural?

Hi there,

Just after a bit of confirmation before we go ahead and do anything, we are re-fitting our toilet/small shower room, one of the issues with it is that its got a low sloping ceiling, and it would appear that there is no need for it.

The house was reroofed in the late 1980's, I'm not sure what kind of roof it had before, but I think at least in places there was no accessable roof void

Looking in the attic above the shower room, would suggest that the ceiling is where it is because its on the underside of what was the old roof joists, the bottom of the pre-formed roof trusses is at a much higher level than the existing ceiling, even higher than the proposed new ceiling height.

Quick diagram of how it basically looks, with red being the existing ceiling, and blue where we want to move it too




Now if these timbers are simply part of the old roof and are no longer structural, the plan is to cut them out, and put new timbers in at the correct height to support the new ceiling

I've taken some pictures from both above and below:

http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image001.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image002.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image003.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image004.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image005.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image006.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image007.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image008.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image009.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image010.jpg

Only slight issue is that the joists continue beyond the wooden timber on top of the wall, and support the sloping ceiling in the adjacent room, also worried that it could possibly be bracing the walls together?

I understand that it can sometimes be hard to give answers over an internet forum, but hopefully someone will be able to give advice?

(oh and dont warry about the messy cableing... previous occupier of the house was a bit of a bodger, I'm in the electrical trade and am slowly working my way around fixing it all... )

The photos don't really tell us a lot, I'm afraid. A more detailed diagam would be more useful (eg what happens to the other end of the old rafters? What are the magically floating roof trusses resting on?)

Many thanks for your response, Ihave had another look and I've tried to draw a couple more digrams, one a general layout of the space below





Yellow lines indicate direction of roof trusses, green line shows the boundry of the other roof space with only a small gap for cabling and plumbing between the two... it is the wall below this that as far as I can see the other end of the old timbers (running at 90degress to the new) rests upon

The new roof trusses above the shower room just rest on the outside walls, to the left of that, the outside walls and internal block was as and when they are... to the right of it iw what I'm worried about, they do seem to rest on the old timbers (but not flat, the angles mean there is very little contact), the trusses get less tall as it goes on as the bottom of them rises up to maintain a constant room height.... obviously done that way to avoid disturbing the ceiling when the roof was done

The point at which they rest on the old timbers is beyond the section of the old timbers that need to be removed to alter the ceiling, so it would seem that what need to happen is for the timbers to be resured to the bit of wood (its at least 6" thick) at the top of the other shower room wall prior to removal of the section above the shower room?

A photo from further back showing more extent of the joists etc would be more helpful.

Thanks for your interest

some more pictures:

http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image011.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image012.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image013.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image014.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image015.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image016.jpg
http://www.electro-zone.co.uk/toilet_ceil/image017.jpg