Replacing GU10 & MR16 Halogen bulbs? - Recommendations?

Hi.

We have just bought a new home which has a mixtures of MR16 (12v) and GU10 (240V) bulbs in various rooms. I want to retain the fitting but change the bulb to a more efficient one i.e. LED etc.

Looking for recommendation, experience, pros & cons from others on this forum.

Important consideration for rooms such as the kitchen and bathroom that we maintain nearly the same output of lighting.

Thanks in advance.

AJ

parmsuk said:

I want to retain the fitting but change the bulb to a more efficient one i.e. LED etc.

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All that will do is mean that you use less electricity to do a cr*p job of lighting the rooms.

You've just moved in - redecorating probably beckons anyway - now's the time to ditch those useless lights altogether.

The house was completely redecorated recently and therefore we don't want to spend any money on this area for a good couple of years.

The light fittings seems to be pretty good quality hence why I want to retain these and just change the bulbs...

Can i recommend the latest compact megaman fluorescents.

They are quicker to warm up, and they still do a cracking job of lighting the room. Ideally suited to kitchens though, and any application where they will be on for a long time. Their light spreads much better than halogen (it isnt focused) so some people percieve them to be dimmer.

Search ebay (where i got mine) for Megaman GU10 CFL. They are only available in 230v - GU10, so the only option for your 12v ones is LED - or get rid of the transformer.

I had a few LED versions of the GU10 put into a house to get around the LABC's low energy requirments.

The lamps have been swopped back now the Building Cert has been done

The customer said they needed a torch to see where they were going while the LED lamps were in.

I thought that dedicated low energy fittings were required for Building Regs. Fitting LED GU10s must be the same as fitting BC or ES low energy lamps. The trouble is, the low energy fittings that do comply (such as the 4-pin CFL) are a load of rubbish. Just as are the LED replacements.

I still think it is crazy that the GLS bulb has met its demise before we have been given an adequate alternative.

The Megaman CFLs do seem to do a fairly good job, in comparison to others. But I've yet to see a decent light from LEDs.

sparkyspike said:

I thought that dedicated low energy fittings were required for Building Regs.

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For CFLs its true but my BCO conceeded that there wasn't a specific fitting for LEDs and tehy complied with the watts per lumen rule so he let me use the "GU10 LEDs" - silly old him, eh?


I agree with your sentiment re GLS. Its ridiculous to hit on that while not doing anything about those big flying fish things.

sparkyspike said:

But I've yet to see a decent light from LEDs.

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The ones I have in my study are excellent. 15W multi-chip emitters made by edison opto. They do 5W coloured versions too, which I use as mood lighting.

parmsuk said:

The light fittings seems to be pretty good quality hence why I want to retain these and just change the bulbs...

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Their quality of construction is not the issue. The problem is their basic shape, and that of their lamps.

They are useless at actually lighting up a room.

aptsys said:

sparkyspike said:

But I've yet to see a decent light from LEDs.

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The ones I have in my study are excellent. 15W multi-chip emitters made by edison opto. They do 5W coloured versions too, which I use as mood lighting.

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I can only find 5W packaged versions on the web, where are you sourcing 15W versions?

(15W LED might just about be usable)

How hot do the 15Ws run?

MR16 (12v)
These have the advantage of a more constant temperature and so the tungsten quartz halogen lamps are both brighter and last longer plus they can be used in bathrooms where the low voltage lamps would not be permitted. However they will not run discharge lamps so to go to energy saving only LED lamps can be used and once fitted will LED lamps only advantage is bathroom fitting or other places like ponds where extra low voltage is required for safety. And LED lamps are still more like candles and apart from looking nice have no real use for lighting except maybe for floor lighting escape routes. So in the main if you want energy saving only option is rip them out.

GU10 (240V)
These will take fluorescent or as some times called cold cathode lamps or even CFU but in the main the lamps are longer than the tungsten quartz halogen lamps they replace and also do not focus the light in the same way. But at 11W do give out usable light.

The whole point of a spot lamp as the name suggests is to aim a spot of light and are often used to highlight pictures and ornaments from a distance and all the low energy lamps seem to lose the point and have rather a spread of light. As a result in the main they will not work as a replacement for correctly selected spot lamps.

However most are not correctly selected and as a result the cold cathode lamp is often better than the old tungsten quartz halogen lamp if and that's the problem they will fit in the holder without looking hideous sticking out and showing there were never the intended lamp. That's if the taper at back of lamp allows it to be fitted at all. I have had a number which do not follow spec and will not fit some holders.

You might find this site useful.

http://www.kulekat.com/led-home-lighting/led-replacements-for-halogen-lamps.html

I haven't tried any of them but I am currently researching the lighting for my new house and would like to go LED if possible. The Zenigata ones from Sharp seem to get some good reviews and have a wider angle than many.

Brightness is obviously an issue. Standard incandescent light bulbs produce about 15 lumens per watt (lm/w). Halogen downlighters are about the same, some worse, some better. Compact fluorescents produce about 60 lm/w and LEDs are about 45 lm/w. So if you want to replace a 50w halogen (producing about 750 lumens) with an LED then you will need about 16-17 watts of LED. The 4.5 watt Zenigata LED is being marketed as a replacement for a 35-50w halogen. Sharp's marketing about it is here http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/sharp_ZENIGATA.pdf. I haven't tried it, but to me the maths don't add up for it to be a 35-50w halogen replacement. The sellers that I have seen (e.g. http://www.yourwelcome.co.uk/acatalog/led236.html) reckon that it produces 200 lumens. A 35 watt halogen will produce 525 lumens and a 50 watt halogen will produce 750 lumens. I have no doubt that LEDs will develop rapidly. I think I read that Sharp have LEDs in the lab now that produce 130 lm/w but no doubt it will be a few years before they are in the shops.

There are a couple of other things to bear in mind. Firstly you need to be aware of the colour temperature. If you want a light that will be more like an incandescent or halogen bulb then you need to go for a warm white bulb (anything with a colour temperature below 3000K) rather than cool white. Warm white bulbs unfortunately produce fewer lumens per watt than cool white.

The second thing to be aware of is that if you are replacing low voltage halogens with LEDs then you may need to change the drivers for the lamps (see http://www.yourwelcome.co.uk/acatalog/12v_Lamps.html ). If you don't, then the lamps will probably fail before they get anywhere near the hoped for 40-50,000 hours.

The third thing is that, although LEDs are a lot cooler than halogens, they do need to be kept cool. If they get too warm then their lifespan will be reduced considerably.

If I was you, then I would try a couple of replacements for the 240v lights and see what you think (and please let me know!).

DCC said:

I can only find 5W packaged versions on the web, where are you sourcing 15W versions?

(15W LED might just about be usable)

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That's odd, they have the emitters/stars (Planar EdiPower Series) but not the MR16 packaged version . I bought mine about 2 years ago from Rapid, but they seem to have stopped selling all but the 5W whites. They used to stock the full colour range in 5W and just white in 15W.

The heatsink sits at about 50°C measured with a Fluke 570. I cannot remember what temperature the die was though.

aa44 said:

If I was you, then I would try a couple of replacements for the 240v lights and see what you think (and please let me know!).

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If I were him I'd remove those useless 50mm recessed luminaires altogether.

Want spotlighting? Then buy a luminaire suitable for spotlighting.

BUT - if you want whole room illumination, buy luminaires suitable for that.

Want LEDs? Then buy luminaires designed to use LEDs in a way which makes them do something useful and effective.

Want CFLs? Then buy luminaires designed to use sensible CFLs, not the sort which mimic non-CF lamps and have all the control gear built in.