Advice for wiring brick lights

GrantF · 5 Sep 2009

Looking to commision a spark to install new lighting circuit for an outside wall I'm having built as part of a garden improvement

Does this sound like an acceptable spec for advert?

* Add a new circuit\MCB to consumer unit.
* Run SWA from garage to new wall and terminate using gland kit.
* Add IP rated 'double switch' to control two light circuits (6 lights at the front of wall, and 4 at the back of wall).
* Define trunking and cabling needs for builder to prepare along wall between lights.
* Once all trunking and cabling has been installed, connect and test.

I'm in Scotland so as I understand it, 'Part P' certification is not required?

holmslaw · 5 Sep 2009

GrantF · 5 Sep 2009

Cheers for the reply. I agree, but SWMBO, has the 'design' remit, and prefers them to the protruding style, which I prefer.

With regard to the supply and connecting the lights, what is deemed the acceptable or the standard method for running the cable between the lights? BTW, they are 40w lights.

Do they have to be chased to a certain depth, and covered in some protection.
I've see plain T+E just being mortared over, and I've also seen them layed in conduit (covered), and mortared over, which I think would be a better option.

Steve · 5 Sep 2009

GrantF said:
BTW, they are 40w lights..

But you wont actually be putting 40 watt lamps in will you? Low energy lamps would be far more appropriate.

GrantF · 5 Sep 2009

Steve said:
GrantF said:

BTW, they are 40w lights..

Click to expand...

But you wont actually be putting 40 watt lamps in will you? Low energy lamps would be far more appropriate.

Hadnt considered that, but thanks.

Either way need to base it on 40w for the cabling requirements?

Steve · 5 Sep 2009

GrantF said:
Steve said:

GrantF said:

BTW, they are 40w lights..

Click to expand...

But you wont actually be putting 40 watt lamps in will you? Low energy lamps would be far more appropriate.

Click to expand...

Hadnt considered that, but thanks.

Either way need to base it on 40w for the cabling requirements?

Wont make much difference, to be honest, it'll just be a standard lighting circuit. Either way could be done in 1.0mm or 1.5mm.

I believe you can get brick fittings designed only for CFLs, they take the 4-pin PL type lamps. Probably brighter than a 40w filament lamp too. You can fit an 18 watt CFL there and double the brightness.

GrantF · 5 Sep 2009

Steve said:
GrantF said:

Steve said:

GrantF said:

BTW, they are 40w lights..

Click to expand...

But you wont actually be putting 40 watt lamps in will you? Low energy lamps would be far more appropriate.

Click to expand...

Hadnt considered that, but thanks.

Either way need to base it on 40w for the cabling requirements?

Click to expand...

Wont make much difference, to be honest, it'll just be a standard lighting circuit. Either way could be done in 1.0mm or 1.5mm.

I believe you can get brick fittings designed only for CFLs, they take the 4-pin PL type lamps. Probably brighter than a 40w filament lamp too. You can fit an 18 watt CFL there and double the brightness.

Thanks for the info Steve, but we've already bought these, they take ED27 fittings, so will look for low energy flavoured bulbs

ban-all-sheds · 5 Sep 2009

GrantF said:
Does this sound like an acceptable spec for advert?

* Add a new circuit\MCB to consumer unit.
* Run SWA from garage to new wall and terminate using gland kit.
* Add IP rated 'double switch' to control two light circuits (6 lights at the front of wall, and 4 at the back of wall).
* Define trunking and cabling needs for builder to prepare along wall between lights.
* Once all trunking and cabling has been installed, connect and test.

Why not just get a few electricians to come along, see the lights, see where the wall will be, see where the cables will have to run, and let them quote?

GrantF said:
With regard to the supply and connecting the lights, what is deemed the acceptable or the standard method for running the cable between the lights?

Your electrician will know.

Do they have to be chased to a certain depth, and covered in some protection.

Your electrician will know.

I've see plain T+E just being mortared over, and I've also seen them layed in conduit (covered), and mortared over, which I think would be a better option.

Your electrician will know.

GrantF said:
Either way need to base it on 40w for the cabling requirements?

Your electrician will know.

GrantF · 5 Sep 2009

Cheers BAS.

No offence, but just like builders etc, there are good and bad sparks out there.
I'm just looking for the 'cues' as to what I should be hearing from those sparks whom I invite to do the work, so I'm able to ensure there arent any corners being cut.

For example, I've had work done by the spark (who was employed by my builder on my new build), to add lights outside, in the soffit, and he didnt even supply waterproof lights!! So basically I've had 'previous' of dodgy sparks, so am exercising some caution now.

seasickstevie · 6 Sep 2009

The more advice you can get on this sort of thing the better. The idea that your electrician will just automatically 'know' is an unsound argument.

How do we know the spark won't be an idiot? Some are. I've met 'em!

holmslaw · 6 Sep 2009

seasickstevie · 6 Sep 2009

holmslaw said:
... for when you remove the lights in a couple of years time.

I take it brick lights aren't considered cool in Russia

SUNRAY · 7 Sep 2009

holmslaw said:
Don't forget to save some bricks for when you remove the lights in a couple of years time.

Seen so many odd bricks stuck in walls for this reason.

Whatever happened to the British Telecom idea of a brick junction box?

holmslaw · 7 Sep 2009

GrantF · 7 Sep 2009

holmslaw said:
Grantf
The wiring arrangements will depend on a number of things;
How thick is the wall?
Will the wiring be exposed or buried in the wall?
Will the spark have to work alongside the brickie?

Three things that would alert me to a dodgy spark:
He suggests or insists on RCD protection.
He says the final connection into the fitting does not have to be weatherproof.
He says he will use T&E cable - not possible to make weatherproof connections with T&E.

Cheers for the info holmslaw.

Yep, from what I've already read on the site and elsewhere, RCD isnt the correct protection, and MCB is the way to go.

The wall is being built from 7Nm dense blocks and will be 200mm thick with a 10-15mm rendered finish on each side. The brickie has already indicated he will cut out the holes for the brick lights, as well as 'chase' runs, laying in conduit between the lights for the cable, which he can then mortar over with the rendering. So all the cabling will be neatly hidden within the the wall structure, enclosed within runs of conduit.

So a couple of questions:-

1. Any particular type of conduit recommended for recessing into the wall?
2. Any particular type of cable recommended, is T&E ok if its in conduit and recessed, or should it be Hi-Tuf, as SWA isnt really workable between the lights?
3. I assume a parallel circuit is the way to go?
4. What type of connections should be used along the circuit to join into the lights, i.e junction boxes?

I'd insist that whichever electrician undertakes the job, can work with the brickie to ensure it's done right and to 'spec'.

Cheers
Grant

holmslaw said:
Don't forget to save some bricks for when you remove the lights in a couple of years time.

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Advice for wiring brick lights

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