Kitchen lights advice please

My first post so I wanted to say hi to you all, I hope you are a friendly bunch! I have done some searching on the forum but haven't found the answer so I thought I would post a new thread.

We have a small kitchen 3.4 x 4.1 metres and are in the process of building a 7.5 x 4.5 metre extension on to the end of it to form an "L". The existing kitchen will become the dining area and the new extension the kitchen area. At present we have eight low voltage eyeball fittings with 50 watt 50 degree bulbs and it's a lovely bright light they give off. As this is going to be the dining area I will replace them with a couple of wall lights, a pendant and a table lamp. Where we are unsure what to do is in the new kitchen. The sparks have been and put the cables in for two additional ceiling zones, one over the island unit and the other round the edge. We want to have lights which are as good as we have been using but if we do then we would need about 16 using 800 watts!

I thought about using mains GU10 bulbs instead of the low voltage so that when we are in the dining area we could dim them to give some ambient light but have been told that they are not as bright as the low voltage ones we have at present. We don't want to use CFLs for several reasons, the slow start up time, they wouldn't give the same quality of light as the MR16s and fluorescent lights give me a headache.

As I understand it LEDs are the future but they are not quite there yet. So is it best to install GU10/MR16s and then replace them once LEDs catch up and can give a bright white light or is there some other alternative?

I have noticed a lot of negative comments about GU10 and MR16 bulbs saying that they don't last very long but we have only replaced three in 12 years which I don't think is bad.

So if any of you have useful suggestions we would be most grateful.

Andyfr

andyfr said:

My first post so I wanted to say hi to you all, I hope you are a friendly bunch! I have done some searching on the forum but haven't found the answer so I thought I would post a new thread.

We have a small kitchen 3.4 x 4.1 metres and are in the process of building a 7.5 x 4.5 metre extension on to the end of it to form an "L". The existing kitchen will become the dining area and the new extension the kitchen area. At present we have eight low voltage eyeball fittings with 50 watt 50 degree bulbs and it's a lovely bright light they give off. As this is going to be the dining area I will replace them with a couple of wall lights, a pendant and a table lamp. Where we are unsure what to do is in the new kitchen. The sparks have been and put the cables in for two additional ceiling zones, one over the island unit and the other round the edge. We want to have lights which are as good as we have been using but if we do then we would need about 16 using 800 watts!

I thought about using mains GU10 bulbs instead of the low voltage

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GU10 are low voltage

so that when we are in the dining area we could dim them to give some ambient light but have been told that they are not as bright as the low voltage ones

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Think you mean extra low voltage

we have at present. We don't want to use CFLs for several reasons, the slow start up time, they wouldn't give the same quality of light as the MR16s and fluorescent lights give me a headache.

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The modern HF units don't take as long to fire up and less likely to give you headache.

As I understand it LEDs are the future but they are not quite there yet. So is it best to install GU10/MR16s and then replace them once LEDs catch up and can give a bright white light or is there some other alternative?

I have noticed a lot of negative comments about GU10 and MR16 bulbs saying that they don't last very long but we have only replaced three in 12 years which I don't think is bad.

So if any of you have useful suggestions we would be most grateful.

Andyfr

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The GU10 is far more flexible allowing fluorescent and LED versions to be fitted but with tungsten quartz halogen they are not as good as the MR16 versions. Reason is the inverters used with the MR16's control the voltage better.

However with a new kitchen one does not really want to fit units which are being phased out. The larger down lighters do give a better spread and are far easier to convert to fluorescent once the tungsten units are withdrawn. Also kitchens do get hot and to also heat with the bulbs makes the whole room hell to work in during the summer.

Thanks for your reply.

GU10 are low voltage

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GU10s are 240v aren't they?

The modern HF units don't take as long to fire up and less likely to give you headache.

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But are they as white and bright as the MR16s?

The larger down lighters do give a better spread and are far easier to convert to fluorescent once the tungsten units are withdrawn.

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I really don't like fluorescent so will LEDs fit in the larger downlighters?

GU10s are 240v aren't they?

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The stuff that joe public like you and me would call low voltage is actually extra low voltage.

But are they as white and bright as the MR16s?

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My recent experience indicates they are very white (even though they are described as cool white they are way whiter than incandescent GU10s. As bright? no. For some reason even though they make a nice strong patch of light on the surface they are illuminating they dont seem to 'bounce around' and fill in the general light level as well.

DCC said:

For some reason even though they make a nice strong patch of light on the surface they are illuminating they dont seem to 'bounce around' and fill in the general light level as well.

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That's why they are called "downlights"

If you want a good light that bounces around for a work area then your best bet is a strip fluorescent.

If you want a good light that bounces around for a work area then your best bet is a strip fluorescent.

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But that's like going back to the 70s, they look so naff! Plus fluorescent lights give me a headache.

Old type fluorescent lights flash 100 times per second i.e. double 50Hz and are bit hit and miss with ballast starting and current control.

The new HF fluorescent lights still flash but more like 1000000 times per second i.e. in giga hertz range in the main as a result the head ache problems no longer arise.

Also the current control is far better and the starting method is completely different. As a result you don't get the blacking of tubes at the end and the light output remains more constant through out the life of the tube. They are brighter and last about 5 times longer.

I fitted an 18 watt one at top of my stairs in 1991 which was second hand when fitted and I have never changed the tube. They also typically use less power than old induction start.

These units are more expensive starting at around £50 against the £12 for old type. You will not get them from DIY sheds like B&Q you need to go to a proper lighting or electrical whole sale outlet.

You can get fluorescent lights in all sorts of shapes from standard long tube to the square or round 2D units to the compact units which replace lights bulbs even GU10.

Using CAT II fittings designed for computer use will further reduce the head ache problem they reflect much of the light and become even more efficient and as a result there is in real terms no flashing only a slight wave on light output.

A 2D light fitting around 28W giving around the same light output as 150W tungsten lamp.

Also this type of down lighter are far brighter than any tungsten lamp could ever be at 100W HF it would be OTT in most kitchens.

Stop using DIY sheds and go to proper outlet.

Right, now I see what you mean. I hadn't realised things had moved on quite so much. Our recent experiences have been when we visit my father in law who has CFLs and it's like being in a cave with a candle as the only means of light. Reading a book with the bedside lamp is awful.

Thanks very much for the information on the HF fluorescent lights, I will look into that further.

High frequency (HF) fittings are recomended for use in workshops where there are moving parts (eg machinery)/ The old type fluors have a flicker so that moving parts can appear to be motionless (stroboscopic effect).

This problem is eliminated with the new HF fittings.

Are the HF fittings suitable for kitchens or are they overkill?

wouldn't a single HF fitting still have the same problem? just at a much higher speed?

I would have thought so.

AFAIK, for machine shops, you should still stick with incandescent lamps, lead lag fittings or fittings evenly distributed across all three phases.

andyfr said:

Are the HF fittings suitable for kitchens or are they overkill?

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I have a HF batten in my kitchen. It was second hand out of an office about five years ago. Still going strong

I put some 2 x 18w PL downlights in a pub to match some existing 100w GLS fittings. They look identicle, but the 2 x 18w fittings are at least twice as bright as the old 100w fitting.

On the down side they take a minute or so to warm up, but they are on all day, so this is not really a problem

andyfr said:

Thanks for your reply.

GU10 are low voltage

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GU10s are 240v aren't they?

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As no one else has properly answered this one

Low voltage GU10's run on 230v
Extra low voltage GU10's run on 12v Usually

Other ELV's exist, confused the hell out of me when I came across 28v GU10's and it was a bugger to get hold of them at the time too.

ericmark said:

1000000 times per second i.e. in giga hertz range

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Those two descriptions are out by a factor of 1000.

And anyway - I thought they were only in the 10's or 100's of kHz?

Also this type of down lighter

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These are also pretty good - a range of covers are available