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re-alarm going off on tamper

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joesoap1

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:09 am Reply with quote

Hi, I posted a question a month ago, and Whistle gave me advice. Since then I have the same problem, IE, alarm goes off and registers "tamper" however it resets immediatly every time. Today,its done it 4 times, having changed the battery as Whistle advised.It always goes off when I use light switch near control box, and it can then do it several times afterwards as today, within minutes of each reset.I somehow still think the light switch has something to do with it?It has gone a month since it last occurred and battery change.I have a PIR near the swich, but have changed that also.Any ideas gratefully recieved,as it resets imediately, i cannot trace fault.
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Boilerman2

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:25 pm Reply with quote

Have you got any cables under the carpet near the light Switch?

You may be causing said Tamper fault by walking on the carpet near a damaged cable underneath?

(I used to Work for Lander Alarms Years ago and came across this more than once!) icon_wink.gif
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joesoap1

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:28 pm Reply with quote

Boilerman2 wrote:
Have you got any cables under the carpet near the light Switch?

You may be causing said Tamper fault by walking on the carpet near a damaged cable underneath?

(I used to Work for Lander Alarms Years ago and came across this more than once!) icon_wink.gif
Hi, No.This has been off and on for a while.The switch cable goes up the wall in trunking, right by PIR, then to strip light. My control panel is on wall 4 feet away, all in garage.My next task is eliminate strip light? It always starts when switch is activated, the alarm is activated, resets immediately, then may,as today go off again 3 times without using the switch, then settles down for sometimes a month or so.Bit of a poser;no bare cables at all.thanks
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youtekkinthepish

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Joined: 04 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:49 pm Reply with quote

To clarify.
Light off, switch left alone, = no problems.
Switch used - possible FA problems.
Light left on , switch not used - problem keeps occuring?

With the switch wire close to the PIR, Possible noisy strip light?
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joesoap1

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:03 pm Reply with quote

youtekkinthepish wrote:
To clarify.
Light off, switch left alone, = no problems.
Switch used - possible FA problems.
Light left on , switch not used - problem keeps occuring?

With the switch wire close to the PIR, Possible noisy strip light?
Hi, Before today , switch used frequently, no problem.Changed battery, old one ok.!! today, activated switch on, alarm activated immediately. reset alarm, ok.switched light off, alarm activated 1 minute later.reset again.2 mins later,, alarm activated, not touched switch, reset again, repeat one more time.No more problems all day, swith been on & off frequently.This is the usual sequence of events every several weeks/months.May not occur again until another 4 weeks or so?
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slowdown

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:40 pm Reply with quote

yes its your light - flurescents are well know for it.
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joesoap1

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:30 am Reply with quote

slowdown wrote:
yes its your light - flurescents are well know for it.
Hi, I have taken tube out, see if that solves it. What does a strip light do to affect the tamper circuit? Would I be better replacing it completely with ordinary bulpb, replace starter, or what? I have always suspected the lighting circuit as it always starts with the light switch. What confuses me though is why does it happen, then go for weeks ok then happen again. The switch is used every day several times a day.Why the intermitency? thanks for reply, let you know the outcome
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joesoap1

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:05 pm Reply with quote

joesoap1 wrote:
slowdown wrote:
yes its your light - flurescents are well know for it.
Hi, I have taken tube out, see if that solves it. What does a strip light do to affect the tamper circuit? Would I be better replacing it completely with ordinary bulpb, replace starter, or what? I have always suspected the lighting circuit as it always starts with the light switch. What confuses me though is why does it happen, then go for weeks ok then happen again. The switch is used every day several times a day.Why the intermitency? thanks for reply, let you know the outcome
Hi Guys, Update. problem still there. changed battery and taken strip light out and replaced with normal fitting.Same thing happened today, as soon as I activated the light switch, of whichthere are 2, 2way, alarm went off on tamper again. reset immediatly.Baffled.any ideas?
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slowdown

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:23 pm Reply with quote

joesoap1 wrote:
joesoap1 wrote:
slowdown wrote:
yes its your light - flurescents are well know for it.
Hi, I have taken tube out, see if that solves it. What does a strip light do to affect the tamper circuit? Would I be better replacing it completely with ordinary bulpb, replace starter, or what? I have always suspected the lighting circuit as it always starts with the light switch. What confuses me though is why does it happen, then go for weeks ok then happen again. The switch is used every day several times a day.Why the intermitency? thanks for reply, let you know the outcome
Hi Guys, Update. problem still there. changed battery and taken strip light out and replaced with normal fitting.Same thing happened today, as soon as I activated the light switch, of whichthere are 2, 2way, alarm went off on tamper again. reset immediatly.Baffled.any ideas?



yes its your light - flurescents are well know for it.
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joe-90

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:38 pm Reply with quote

Is one of your switches arcing? Maybe causing a spike that upsets the microprocessor?
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joesoap1

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:57 pm Reply with quote

joe-90 wrote:
Is one of your switches arcing? Maybe causing a spike that upsets the microprocessor?
Hi,Thanks for input, it isn,t the strip light, as I said, i have replaced it, regarding the switch arcing, it can occur using either of the 2 switches, 2way in garage.The switches are definely connected somehow as it always starts with activating either of the 2 switches.I have checked switches visually, seem ok? As the light switch cable runs up the wall inside its plastic cladding ,it runs adjacent a PIR, I wonder if that has any effect? Certainly is a poser.If only it wouldn,t reset immediately. I could try and trace it.open to any advice.try anything.cheers
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joe-90

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:00 pm Reply with quote

You could do with trying a different PIR. If it is a cheapy it won't have very good RFI protection. Or maybe the panel doesn't have that micro delay that is there to stop this happening.
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joesoap1

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:10 pm Reply with quote

joe-90 wrote:
You could do with trying a different PIR. If it is a cheapy it won't have very good RFI protection. Or maybe the panel doesn't have that micro delay that is there to stop this happening.
Hi Joe can you elaborate about the board.Or Panel. not sure what you mean? My next job 2moro was to either resite the PIR, I can change it, have a spare.cheers


Last edited by joesoap1 on Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total
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joe-90

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:16 pm Reply with quote

The detection (normally closed) circuits of an alarm should have a 400 - 500 millisecond delay before it 'reads' a circuit as open. If you open and close the circuit really quickly the open circuit won't register. The reason for that is that voltage spikes and fluctuations can trigger an alarm falsely, so this tiny half second delay was added. That's why panic buttons are latching.
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joesoap1

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:22 pm Reply with quote

joe-90 wrote:
The detection (normally closed) circuits of an alarm should have a 400 - 500 millisecond delay before it 'reads' a circuit as open. If you open and close the circuit really quickly the open circuit won't register. The reason for that is that voltage spikes and fluctuations can trigger an alarm falsely, so this tiny half second delay was added. That's why panic buttons are latching.
OK,got that. If panel hasn,t got the delay, what,s cure apart from changing panel, didn,t put a panic button in . I installed it myself 14 years ago, been fine till lately pir is a pyronix coltxs uk made.is that a cheapie?
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