Myson (Thorn) Apollo Fanfare 30/50 si flue

wickers · 17 Sep 2009

Hello,

New to this forum. Hope somebody can help with this.

The flue to my Myson apollo fanfare 30/50 si has a number of holes appearing to the inner (exhaust out) part of the flue.

Does anybody know what the part number is (nothing in the instructions/installation manual downloaded from partsarena). Cannot find anything on the internet. Or, is there a Potterton equivalent that would make a good replacement.

Failing that it looks like the heat resistant tape will have to come out (is there any safety issues. I can't see any as the boiler is room sealed and the outer tube of the flue is intact ??)

Thanks

Agile · 17 Sep 2009

Your boiler is classed as immediately dangerous.

Furthermore only a gas registered person should be touching the flue.

I doubt the flue is still available after so long but some others on here may know.

I thin k that Potterton have inherited this brand so try calling them. 01926 425425 might get you through. They should be able to identify the part number.

Alternatively go to Parts Center.

Tony

wickers · 17 Sep 2009

Hello Agile,

Thanks for the speedy responce. Could you tell me why the boiler would be classed as dangerous? The outer flue is intact as are all the seals. I cannot see how any fumes would enter the building.

Thanks

BingoBongo · 17 Sep 2009

the flue is starting to corode which means it could be coroded right up the length of the flue.

Very common on older Vokera`s. i have seen inner flue`s that look as though they have been eaten by a pack of rats the full length.

it can also be corroding in the flue elbow inner.

this leads to the exhaust/inlet mixing=incomplete combustion=bad news

I.D

turn it of ASAP

Deleted member 105431 · 17 Sep 2009

time for a new (more efficent) boiler.

wickers · 17 Sep 2009

Hi BingoBongo,

Thanks for the info. That looks like the rule then, spot any corrosion and it's condemned. Makes sense as you have to, like you say, suspect that the rest could be corroded aswell.

Ta

Agile · 17 Sep 2009

If the flue outlet gas is being recycled through the inlet then if its not immediately ignited the entire combustion chamber can fill with gas/air mixture and then eventually ignite and explode blowing the case apart into your room!

While the boiler is running the oxygen depleted flue products will be recycled back to the boiler and will not contain enough oxygen to completely burn the gas. Instead of producing CO² it can only manage CO which is more attracted to your blood than oxygen and rapidly suffocates you by oxygen starvation.

Tony

AlanE · 18 Sep 2009

time for a new (more efficent) boiler.

Or a replacement flue. Still available for some Fanfares it seems.

wickers · 18 Sep 2009

Agile said:
If the flue outlet gas is being recycled through the inlet then if its not immediately ignited the entire combustion chamber can fill with gas/air mixture and then eventually ignite and explode blowing the case apart into your room!

While the boiler is running the oxygen depleted flue products will be recycled back to the boiler and will not contain enough oxygen to completely burn the gas. Instead of producing CO² it can only manage CO which is more attracted to your blood than oxygen and rapidly suffocates you by oxygen starvation.

Tony

Hello Tony,

Thanks for taking the time to explain the situation. Having two young children in the house I'll be taking your comments very seriously.

I see what you mean whereby carbon monoxide is created by burning the recycled exhaust gasses.

I can see that if a proportion of exhaust gasses are mixed in with the air intake then the boiler will run inefficiently and produce more carbon monoxide but I cannot see how that gas/air ratio would get worse and worse. The 'bad mix' is being constantly removed by the fan and replaced by another equivalent 'bad mix' ???? I can see that if the ratio got quite high then it could suddenly ignite.

This boiler has a negative pressure case. I know people will say that the 30/50 is a positive pressure case but this must be a later model as the fan in on the outlet. On a positive pressure case, if the fan and the APS were faulty and the flue was blocked I can see a build up which could cause an explosion ???

How likely is an explosion? There must be at least 25% of the UK population who do not/cannot afford to have regular boiler services. That makes about 5 million unserviced boilers. You hear about carbon monoxide poisinings but not explosions ???

I am not questioning what you say, just as an engineer I am interested in the way things work and am interested to pick the brains from somebody who has done all the training.

Thanks

tonybhoy · 18 Sep 2009

The gas air ratio gets worse because the boiler produces soot which then blocks the pilot and burner (chilling and impingment) which then causes an even worse air gas ratio which then causes more co2 ad infinutum regardless of what the fan is trying to do, basically the fan can can only remove so much of the stuff but it you need air too which obviously you have very little off.

wickers · 18 Sep 2009

tonybhoy said:
The gas air ratio gets worse because the boiler produces soot which then blocks the pilot and burner (chilling and impingment) which then causes an even worse air gas ratio which then causes more co2 ad infinutum regardless of what the fan is trying to do, basically the fan can can only remove so much of the stuff but it you need air too which obviously you have very little off.

Hello tonybhoy,

Thanks for the explanation. Wouldn't the soot problem be more of a lack of servicing issue ? How long would it take before the soot got that bad??

I have had these holes in my flue for the last 3 years, which have got slightly worse in that time. In that time the boiler has been serviced twice by CORGI engineers (the first one put some tape over the hole in the flue). Both times the engineers have commented on how clean the inside of the boiler has been and I have seen this for myself.

When you have children in the house you cannot take any chances but, with regular servicing, are all these potential hazards possible but highly unlikely ????

Thanks

Paul

namsag · 18 Sep 2009

From starting to soot up to being completly clogged on one of these, less than a day in the winter

wickers · 18 Sep 2009

namsag said:
From starting to soot up to being completly clogged on one of these, less than a day in the winter

Crikey, less than a day!! Are these Apollo Fanfares ready for the scrap heap then? Mine seems to run fine (other than the potential safety issues being mentioned).

I have been quoted £1720 to replace the boiler with a Vaillant Ecotec 415. It is a straight swap i.e open flue for another open flue. The quote is to replace the boiler and add a condensate drain to a drain a few feet away. There are no access problems. All other work has been done (flushing, trvs, gas supply, pump electrics, upto date programmer etc etc).

The boiler is just under £600 incl vat and the flue about £80. Is about £1000 labour reasonable ???

Thanks

tonybhoy · 18 Sep 2009

Once the incomplete combustion process starts things get out of hand pretty quickly as the bold boy above has already stated, lack of servicing really has nothing to do with it, well it has but that's an altogether different topic.

£1700 odd to change you boiler isn't a ridiculous price IMO, your forgetting that the guy has to make a profit on top of of his wage.

I.E Van, fuel, training, mobile phone ,quoting for work. The list is endless.

You get nothing for nothing mate.

wickers · 18 Sep 2009

tonybhoy said:
Once the incomplete combustion process starts things get out of hand pretty quickly as the bold boy above has already stated, lack of servicing really has nothing to do with it, well it has but that's an altogether different topic.

£1700 odd to change you boiler isn't a ridiculous price IMO, your forgetting that the guy has to make a profit on top of of his wage.

I.E Van, fuel, training, mobile phone ,quoting for work. The list is endless.

You get nothing for nothing mate.

Hi,

Thanks for the information.

A self employed builder would typically ask for about £150/day. Out of this he would have to supply a van, tools, phone, supply quotes etc etc (my brother is a builder). It just seems that about £800/ day is quite high.
My local garage charges £40/hr. Out of this he has to pay for the garage itself, loads of tools, admin staff etc etc.

I know that heating engineers have to go through a fair amount of training and have various overheads and deserve a good wage but other very very skilled and highly trained people earn alot less.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my questions. On a less serious note if you type in "boiler installation" in ebay there are a couple of people who will supply and fit a new boiler for £800.I won't however, be using them as I would would very much doubt their ability and won't be very happy when my house blows up. I'll have to get one of you guys in and pay towards your new Ferrari (only joking

)

Paul

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Myson (Thorn) Apollo Fanfare 30/50 si flue

Deleted member 105431

namsag

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