Installing a 1960's Pull down light with no earth help!

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Hello everyone, I have taken off a 1980s pull down light and want to replace it with my own 1960's pull down light there are only two wires coming out of the ceiling red and black (mid vic terrace) but there seems to be a coil of copper wire aswell attached to nothing ?

The light I want to install has a metal pull down handle (so did the old one that seemed to work fine) and three screw in bulbs, I am worried that it will be unsafe to pull, change bulbs etc! can anyone shed some 'light' on this ?

Sorry about the pun!

what should I do, bite the bullet and just install a plastic normal fitting?

or is there any way I can make the pull down work safely?

[/b]
 
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there seems to be a coil of copper wire aswell attached to nothing
Can you elaborate on that?


The light I want to install has a metal pull down handle (so did the old one that seemed to work fine) and three screw in bulbs, I am worried that it will be unsafe to pull, change bulbs etc! can anyone shed some 'light' on this ?
If it needs an earth then it could well be unsafe to touch, change lamps etc without one.

Does the light have an earth terminal? Just because it has a metal handle that doesn't mean it's not double insulated.


what should I do, bite the bullet and just install a plastic normal fitting?
You should get your installation checked over - if the lighting circuit really doesn't have an earth then it's pretty old.


or is there any way I can make the pull down work safely?
Rewire the lighting circuit.....
 
there seems to be a coil of copper wire aswell attached to nothing
Can you elaborate on that?

it seems to be in between the two wire's and just scrunched up ! not being used I don't really know why or what it is there for.

The light I want to install has a metal pull down handle (so did the old one that seemed to work fine) and three screw in bulbs, I am worried that it will be unsafe to pull, change bulbs etc! can anyone shed some 'light' on this ?
If it needs an earth then it could well be unsafe to touch, change lamps etc without one.

Does the light have an earth terminal? Just because it has a metal handle that doesn't mean it's not double insulated.

I cannot see one (not that i'm sure what one looks like!)
it has two wires coming out of the light it has a plastic cup that will hide all the wire and hang flush to the ceiling once hooked on the unit under the hook is a plastic box)


what should I do, bite the bullet and just install a plastic normal fitting?
You should get your installation checked over - if the lighting circuit really doesn't have an earth then it's pretty old.

it's a 1890 house !?

or is there any way I can make the pull down work safely?
Rewire the lighting circuit.....
 
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there seems to be a coil of copper wire aswell attached to nothing
Can you elaborate on that?

it seems to be in between the two wire's and just scrunched up ! not being used I don't really know why or what it is there for.

The light I want to install has a metal pull down handle (so did the old one that seemed to work fine) and three screw in bulbs, I am worried that it will be unsafe to pull, change bulbs etc! can anyone shed some 'light' on this ?
If it needs an earth then it could well be unsafe to touch, change lamps etc without one.

Does the light have an earth terminal? Just because it has a metal handle that doesn't mean it's not double insulated.

I cannot see one (not that i'm sure what one looks like!)
it has two wires coming out of the light it has a plastic cup that will hide all the wire and hang flush to the ceiling once hooked on the unit under the hook is a plastic box)


what should I do, bite the bullet and just install a plastic normal fitting?
You should get your installation checked over - if the lighting circuit really doesn't have an earth then it's pretty old.

it's a 1890 house !?

or is there any way I can make the pull down work safely?
Rewire the lighting circuit.....

the coil of copper from between the two cables, is that bare copper that comes from a grey outer sheath with the red and black wires either side?? are the red and black stranded cables or solid conductors? also is the bare wire solid or stranded?
 
there seems to be a coil of copper wire aswell attached to nothing [/quote]
Can you elaborate on that?

it seems to be in between the two wire's and just scrunched up ! not being used I don't really know why or what it is there for.

The light I want to install has a metal pull down handle (so did the old one that seemed to work fine) and three screw in bulbs, I am worried that it will be unsafe to pull, change bulbs etc! can anyone shed some 'light' on this ?
If it needs an earth then it could well be unsafe to touch, change lamps etc without one.

Does the light have an earth terminal? Just because it has a metal handle that doesn't mean it's not double insulated.

I cannot see one (not that i'm sure what one looks like!)
it has two wires coming out of the light it has a plastic cup that will hide all the wire and hang flush to the ceiling once hooked on the unit under the hook is a plastic box)


what should I do, bite the bullet and just install a plastic normal fitting?
You should get your installation checked over - if the lighting circuit really doesn't have an earth then it's pretty old.

it's a 1890 house !?

or is there any way I can make the pull down work safely?
Rewire the lighting circuit.....[/quote][/quote]

the coil of copper from between the two cables, is that bare copper that comes from a grey outer sheath with the red and black wires either side?? are the red and black stranded cables or solid conductors? also is the bare wire solid or stranded?[/quote]


It does sit in a grey outer and in between the red and black and is solid.
I have now added a album of images.




many thanks for this...
 

Can't see an earth terminal....

But there is an earth available if you should need one:


So why should it not be safe to touch the handle of the light or change a bulb?

it seems to be in between the two wire's and just scrunched up ! not being used I don't really know why or what it is there for.
You really, really, really do need to learn more about domestic wiring before deciding to do any electrical work.
 

Can't see an earth terminal....

But there is an earth available if you should need one:
How can i connect the earth without the fitting on the light though?

So why should it not be safe to touch the handle of the light or change a bulb?

As i felt that because of them being metal then I might get a shock through the whole light ?

it seems to be in between the two wire's and just scrunched up ! not being used I don't really know why or what it is there for.
You really, really, really do need to learn more about domestic wiring before deciding to do any electrical work.

I know, I know ! I am only trying to tackle this and nothing else! I have ceramic wall lights which are a double insulated so there all good to go I just need to know if its safe to use this pull down light ? and put it up without earthing it?

Many thanks.


 
You really, really, really do need to learn more about domestic wiring before deciding to do any electrical work.

BAS, he is asking questions for two reasons as you well know.

1. He wants to really really learn.
2. He wants to do it safely.

Stop being such a pain, please.

As you have been told many, many times, this is a DIY forum. Your behaviour is bordering on abuse, please behave.
 
the scrunched up bare cable is the CPC, or earth. this should be sheathed in green and yellow sleeving and terminated in a connector block. There appears to be no earth connection on your new fitting although on a seperate matter it is worth noting that if it takes an eddison screw lamp it is VERY important that the live (red) wire is connected to the cable in the light that goes to the center pins.
 
it is VERY important that the live (red) wire is connected to the cable in the light that goes to the center pins.
Assuming all three centre pins are connected together.

It looks like the screw cap holders are inside metal tubes without any insulating sleeve between them and the tube so this item is almost certainly not double insulated. Therefor the metal work does need to be earthed if it is to be safe in use.

Carbonised spider remains between holder and metal work could make a connection between lamp holder and the metal work.
 
BAS, he is asking questions for two reasons as you well know.

1. He wants to really really learn.
2. He wants to do it safely.

Stop being such a pain, please.
I'm sorry you regard someone who provides people with information which will aid learning and will help them do things safely as a pain.

Maybe you shouldn't be here if you don't want people to be provided with useful information.


As you have been told many, many times, this is a DIY forum. Your behaviour is bordering on abuse, please behave.
I'm sorry you regard providing someone with information which will aid learning and will help them do things safely as abuse.

Maybe you shouldn't be here if you don't want people to be provided with useful information.
 
It looks like the screw cap holders are inside metal tubes without any insulating sleeve between them and the tube so this item is almost certainly not double insulated. Therefor the metal work does need to be earthed if it is to be safe in use.
If the light is double insulated it should not be earthed.

If it is so old that it is not marked with a DI symbol AND it does not have an earth terminal then it should not be used.
 

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