Wall Hung Flueless gas Fires. Think Very Carefully

alanfrank · 15 Nov 2009

I am posting this topic as a warning to unsuspecting customers considering buying a wall hung flueless gas fire. I recently bought such a fire , a contemporary design which has a glass front with a line of flame inside. Being flueless it hangs directly on a wall. When fitted I was delighted with the product. Then I turned it on. What I hadn't realised was that these fires have a convector grill on the top edge which emits hot/ warm air. The problem was that the hot air heated the plaster skimmed wall to such an extent that an area of plaster about three foot above the fire bellied out, cracked and literally fell off the wall. To be fair the instructions do say not to hang below a TV, picture frame etc but I hadn't realised it would affect the actual wall in this way. I would suggest that you read my query, and the responses I received, on this subject before deciding to buy one yourself. My advice would be DON'T !!! but I would be interested in any views from retailers or fitters of this type of fire.
Alanfrank

kevindgas · 15 Nov 2009

as previously said many many times on here
THEY ARE LETHAL DEATHTRAPS if the slightest thing goes wrong with them
British Gas and numerous RGI's including myself will not Fit, Service or Repair these horrors

they are banned in numerous states in the USA

just look up Cwmbran death if you want to know the fatal consequences of fitting these crates.

Steve · 15 Nov 2009

i wouldnt have a flueless fire anyway.

a gas hob without an extractor is bad enough

alanfrank · 15 Nov 2009

Kevin / Steve,
Thanks for your responses guys. I wasn't aware of any of these issues.I was thinking of replastering above the fire with heat resistant plaster but after your comments I think I will just have the fire taken out completely.
Ta
Alan

Boilerman2 · 15 Nov 2009

Where there is fire there will be heat!???

kevindgas · 15 Nov 2009

Boilerman2 said:
Where there is fire there will be heat!???

unless it's made by focalshite then it may not even work!!

EddieM · 15 Nov 2009

Steve said:
i wouldnt have a flueless fire anyway.

a gas hob without an extractor is bad enough

I never operate a switch unless I'm cross bonded.

bengasman · 16 Nov 2009

Though flueless fires are crap, the problem you experienced is not due to the fire, but the poor quality of your plaster, or a damp problem.

Richard C · 16 Nov 2009

bengasman said:
Though flueless fires are crap, the problem you experienced is not due to the fire, but the poor quality of your plaster, or a damp problem.

I answered the OP’s original post regarding the plaster damage;
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=200462
I’ve no comment to make regarding flueless gas fires but it’s almost certainly not due to the quality of the plaster or damp; I’ve seen this happen many times & it’s down to spreads not understanding the limitations of Gypsum plaster & using the wrong materials; all the OP is trying to do (as I am) is prevent others making the same mistake.

connectionsg · 16 Nov 2009

Have to agree with a number of your contributors regarding the flueless gas fires. We have heard some horror stories from sites these were supplied to, where complete redecortion was required.
If you have no flue you are better off going for a balanced flue gas fire or one of the very attractive electric wall hung fires now availible.

Agile · 16 Nov 2009

Of course I agree with all the warnings about flueless fires.

However, I am a little surprised about the plaster problem.

In the olden days there were coal fires in fireplaces and the chimney breast above would get quite hot to the touch but the plaster never fell off !

Now is that because the brickwork was hot all through and its just a surface heat the plaster cannot stand?

This is the first time I have heard of that but I have visited many traditional gas fire installations and never seen a plaster problem.

Tony

Richard C · 16 Nov 2009

Agile said:
However, I am a little surprised about the plaster problem.
In the olden days there were coal fires in fireplaces and the chimney breast above would get quite hot to the touch but the plaster never fell off !
Now is that because the brickwork was hot all through and its just a surface heat the plaster cannot stand?
This is the first time I have heard of that but I have visited many traditional gas fire installations and never seen a plaster problem.

Conventional Gypsum plasters (base coat & finish plasters) are only good up to 49 degrees; I was going to post a link but there seems to be a problem with the British Gypsum web site. Heat Gypsum much above that & the finish plaster will blow of the render base & if it’s a Gypsum base coat as well, it’s most likely that will also fail. My own 60’s property had obviously been subject to a flue fire at some point & it had blown all the finish plaster right up the central flue both upstairs & downstairs. I had to take it all back to the render base but most of that was still intact so all it needed was minor repairs & a re-skim.

It’s only the immediate area around the fire, 300mm or so that’s usually affected. In the case of older properties, the finish around the fire is usually sand/cement/lime render as a base & either a stone, tile or cast iron fire surround fitted over that & then finish plastered up to it. If you’re going to install any type of fire that generates heat much above 50 degres in the wall surrounding the fire (open fire, log burner, multi fuel stove etc.) then you need to use the correct materials or it will almost certainly fall off; I have no idea what sort of temperatures gas fires generate in the surrounding wall.

alanfrank · 16 Nov 2009

bengasman said:
Though flueless fires are crap, the problem you experienced is not due to the fire, but the poor quality of your plaster, or a damp problem.

Thanks for your views. I am not an expert on either gas fires or plastering but I don't think damp was an issue as there were no probs with the plaster for months and it was only after the fire was switched on for an hour that the plaster damage occured. The surface plaster was very hot (certainly above 49 degrees) so Richard's explanation would account for the damage. Thanks anyway.

alanfrank · 16 Nov 2009

Agile said:
Of course I agree with all the warnings about flueless fires.

However, I am a little surprised about the plaster problem.

In the olden days there were coal fires in fireplaces and the chimney breast above would get quite hot to the touch but the plaster never fell off !

Now is that because the brickwork was hot all through and its just a surface heat the plaster cannot stand?

This is the first time I have heard of that but I have visited many traditional gas fire installations and never seen a plaster problem.

Hi,
thanks for your response. I have had traditional gas fires and a hole in the wall fire previously and like you had never encountered any problems. The difference with this type of fire is that the convector panel blows the hot air upwards directly onto the surface plaster from a distance of about two inches thereby causing the plaster to heat up to a high temperature very quickly. I am not seeking to apportion blame to either the plasterer or the gas installer, I just feel I couldn't have done anything to prevent this happening and just want to warn others of potential problems . Thanks again.

Tony

alanfrank · 16 Nov 2009

kevindgas said:
as previously said many many times on here
THEY ARE LETHAL DEATHTRAPS if the slightest thing goes wrong with them
British Gas and numerous RGI's including myself will not Fit, Service or Repair these horrors

they are banned in numerous states in the USA

just look up Cwmbran death if you want to know the fatal consequences of fitting these crates.

Kevin,
Thanks for your original reply but could I update you and trouble you further. I have sent an email to the gas fire supplier expaining the problem ( a fairly large chain operating in North West England) seeking a refund on the fire. They have responded but asked for a copy of the gas safety certificate and post installation analysing report which they say should have been issued by the independant installer. All I received from the installer was an invoice. Is the supplier correct, should I have been issued this documentation at the time or is this some sort of 'get out; ploy by the supplier?
Cheers Alan

diynot

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.

Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

Wall Hung Flueless gas Fires. Think Very Carefully

EddieM

Similar threads