Skirting board level horizontal cabling

markdibley · 13 Feb 2010

Hello

I have planning permission from the council to do my own electrical work in the kitchen diner.

I was wondering if anyone knew of a way of taking a cable horizontally at skirting board type level. They told me I can go horizontally but only within the top 6 inches of the wall.

I know I could use box trunking on top of the skirting board. Is there any other option. It is a concrete floor so coming from beneath is difficult.

I know in some countries you get special skirting that also acts as trunking. Can that be used here?

Thanks for your advice

Mark

Taylortwocities · 13 Feb 2010

Look in the wiki for safe zones here: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:installation_techniques:walls

You must not conceal wiring behind skirting unless it is run in earthed steel conduit or is more than 50mm from the surface (you won't be able to do this as your wall would fall down!)

You can buy and use skirting trunking. Sold in electrical wholesalers and online.

Where does the cable go to, and from. What is it for?

oharaf · 13 Feb 2010

I am already a little amazed that your council are prepared to let youdo this work but you are here asking some basic questions.!!

You can run vertically and horizontally between 2 accessories and/or within 150mm of where 2 walls or the ceiling and wall meet.

Why do you want to run cable at skirting height?? You can get 'trunking' that looks like skirting and you could use it.

martinxxxxxx · 13 Feb 2010

Skirting Trunking OK

Behind the Skirting board - No

Did the council say it has to comply with any regulations at all?

Did they want you show you are competent to do the work?

If not, it is a bit unusual.

Martin

markdibley · 13 Feb 2010

THanks.

I knew about not hiding behind a skirting, but the safe zone pic is very useful.

The wall in question is a cavity external wall so i don't know if those rules apply and I don't think I can go that far into the brick (1/4 brick only) to put in metal trunking.

The cable is for sockets in the dining room area.

I think my only other option is to drop from above.

JohnD · 13 Feb 2010

if you are fitting a generous number of sockets (a double every two metres is not too many) you can chase the cables horizontally into the wall between sockets. Assuming your cables are otherwise run under the floor, you can come directly up from the floor vertically to any socket as well. This vertical cable can go behind a skirting board.

This method is also very economical of labour and materials in a kitchen, where you will have a row of sockets and switches in a long horizontal row about 200mm above worktop, all round the room, probably one every 600mm.

You can read up more about safe zones, but basically you are allowed to run a concealed cable in a wall directly vertically or horizontally from an accessory. That gives a clue to anyone thinking of drilling a hole or banging in a nail.

You are now required to RCD protect all your concealed cables even though they are in safe zones (chasing 50mm into a wall is generally impractical)

Kitchen Example (old colours):

View media item 4496

In this example there are switches above worktop level to control appliance outlets below.

markdibley · 13 Feb 2010

Hello again

@oharaf - it's a basic question because i was taught never to go horizontally and now I find that you can in some circumstances. New regs arrive so often I thought it best to ask. It's not basic, it's called being safe.

@martinxxx - I did show I was competent and I am. And they did say it has to comply with regs - which is why I am asking just to confirm that there are no options other than what I intended to do which is drop from the ceiling.

@JohnD - Thanks for this advice but we won't have that many sockets. I still find it weird that you can go horizontally

Another question then - I have heard that you can no longer put appliance terminals in cupboards. however, the guy from the council hadn't heard of this. Is it true?

Also, is there a minimum distance that the sockets have to be above a worksurface? That isn't on the safezone diagram.

I just noticed the links at the bottom of the safezone diagram so will have a look in there too.

Thanks again for all your advice.

markdibley · 13 Feb 2010

thanks

plugwash · 13 Feb 2010

Another question then - I have heard that you can no longer put appliance terminals in cupboards. however, the guy from the council hadn't heard of this. Is it true?

My understanding is that all appliances should have an accesible means of disconnection (not sure exactly what the reg says). IMO the best way to do this is to have a switch or FCU above the worktop feeding a socket or flex outlet behind the appliance. Some think a socket or switch iin a cupboard can be counted as an accessible means of disconnection, others don't.

It's generally reccomeneded (though not required afaict) to mount all electrical accessories direct to the building structure to avoid the need for electrical work when cupboards are moved.

Also, is there a minimum distance that the sockets have to be above a worksurface? That isn't on the safezone diagram.

I'm not aware of any specific rule on this but the more general considerations of equipment being suitabile for it's environment come into play. A socket too close to the worktop will be more at risk from splashes and if it's really close will put stress on the flexes.

mfarrow · 13 Feb 2010

plugwash said:
Also, is there a minimum distance that the sockets have to be above a worksurface? That isn't on the safezone diagram.

Click to expand...

I'm not aware of any specific rule on this.

I believe it's in the on-site guide (if not the Electrical one then certainly the Electricians Guide to the Building Regulations. 200mm springs to mind.

I recommend you at least get your hands on a copy of the On-Site Guide (red book). Waterstones have them but are often hidden behind the counter.

martinxxxxxx · 13 Feb 2010

markdibley said:
Hello again

@martinxxx - I did show I was competent and I am. And they did say it has to comply with regs - which is why I am asking just to confirm that there are no options other than what I intended to do which is drop from the ceiling.

.

Hi Mark

Then it must them that is not.

Surely to be competent, you would have to know the basics of the regs. I am really interested in how you were able to demonstrate your competency to them? Have you an electrical qualification of some kind that they have accepted?

There are other options in the regs, i am surprised that someone with your level of competency is not aware of them?

If this sounds a bit sarcastic, please be assured I am interested in the answers. I mean if someone can go to the council and say, Hey , I want do electrical work, do some of them just ask you to tick a box that you are competent?

Martin

dingbat · 13 Feb 2010

markdibley said:
I have planning permission from the council to do my own electrical work in the kitchen diner.

No you haven't.

You may, however, have submitted a building notice to Building Control, which is a different thing altogether.

Along with others I have some concerns. Chiefly, how you propose to test your work. Unless your building inspector is doing this for you - extremely unlikely - you may have to produce documentary evidence of compliance in the form of an electrical installation certificate.

Unless such a certificate is issued for the work, that work will not comply with the IEE Wiring Regulations. And unless you can test it properly - and this is the important bit - even you cannot be certain that it is safe.

oharaf · 13 Feb 2010

markdibley";p="1509833 said:
Hello again

@oharaf - it's a basic question because i was taught never to go horizontally and now I find that you can in some circumstances. New regs arrive so often I thought it best to ask. It's not basic, it's called being safe.

Being competent naturally should imply being safe!!

If you are not upto date with the regulations, then you are not fully competent and therefore not safe. As mentioned here already, you need to obtain as a minimum an OSG and read it!!!!

Just out of curiosity how will you be testing these works in order so satisfy the requirements of BS7671:2008 and prove that the circuits are safe??

markdibley · 14 Feb 2010

Hello

Thanks for your replies and the advice about the OSG. This is exactly what I was looking for.

And yes, you are right, I said I had planning permission, but it is just a notice of building control. Sorry

And when i said I had shown I was competent actually what I did is discuss with the council inspector my past experiences (completely rewired 2 homes) and said I felt competent to do the work and they agreed. That is all they required and as I understood it that is all that was necessary at that time.

At the end the council nominated electrician will come and view the work and will issue a building regs work completion certificate if the work has been done satisfactorily. I will then need to get an independent electrician to test the work and it's safety and issue an electrical installation certificate.

Sorry I didn't tell you all this information before, but really I was only coming here to ask if there was a way of avoiding coming from above to do the sockets that can't be reached from below. The information about the OSG is really useful thanks. To everyone else, I thank you for your concerns, but please be assured that I am working well within the rules and regulations and have every confidence that the work will go well.

If it doesn't I will get in an electrician.

Thanks

oharaf · 14 Feb 2010

At the end the council nominated electrician will come and view the work and will issue a building regs work completion certificate if the work has been done satisfactorily. I will then need to get an independent electrician to test the work and it's safety and issue an electrical installation certificate.

Good luck with finding an independent electrician to sign the work off!!!! That is technically not allowed as he is saying he has installed, inspected and tested it!!!! Clearly he won't have done the first part!!!

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Skirting board level horizontal cabling

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