Existing bathroom wiring - is it dangerous?

Hi all,

I moved into my current house back in August, and there's a lot of 'DIY' evident around the place. Most of it doesn't bother me, as over time I can fix it (most of it is poor carpentry or decoration), however having recently explored the loft prior to re-insulating and partial boarding, I discovered the bathroom wiring is not so great.

To my untrained eye, it's not going to kill anyone, it's just very untidy (nothing screwed or fixed in place, not particularly neat trimming of cables, and no fire guards for the down-lighters, even though they are nicely wrapped up in insulation.

Oh, and there was one live cable that just had some electrical tape over the end of it! (I found the other end, and removed it completely, so it's now a little better than it as).

The biggest thing to concern me, and mainly through ignorance, is the extractor fan. It's just wired directly off the switched live and neutral of one of the down-lights, using what looks like a bit of flex from a lamp.

Is this dangerous, or just sloppy? What do I need to do to make it safe?

My plans in general were to:

Fix all the cabling and junction boxes in place
add fireguards above the downlights
tidy up the extractor fan

However, I'm not sure what 'tidying up' the extractor fan should involve.

There is no timer, humidistat or anything on it, it's just on when the lights are on. I guess it could be nice to have it on a separate switch so I could have lights on without the fan, and I guess it could be even nicer to have the fan and lights separate so that I can clear the air without the lights on, but to be honest, I want to keep things cheap and simple (so cheap means making it safer without having to get a pro electrician in)

I'm a practical person, but no electrician, so an advice gratefully received

Ta,

Leon

leonlikestrees said:

it's just very untidy (nothing screwed or fixed in place, not particularly neat trimming of cables

Click to expand...

It's common for cables in lofts not to be fixed in place. But it's a good idea to fix them especially, if you are intending to use the loft space and may disturb them. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "not particularly neat trimming of cables" but it does suggest amateur installation, I would be concerned if the cables were not properly terminated, and that the insulation and / or sheath stripped back too far.

leonlikestrees said:

and no fire guards for the down-lighters, even though they are nicely wrapped up in insulation.

Click to expand...

Why do you think you need fire guards? They are only necessary where there is another habitable dwelling above, ie in flats. The insulation is definitely wrong though. Most manufacturers recommend several inches clearance for the insulation. I have seen some badly burned because of this. This should get urgent attention.

leonlikestrees said:

Oh, and there was one live cable that just had some electrical tape over the end of it! (I found the other end, and removed it completely, so it's now a little better than it as).

Click to expand...

Excellent

leonlikestrees said:

The extractor fan. It's just wired directly off the switched live and neutral of one of the down-lights, using what looks like a bit of flex from a lamp.

Click to expand...

Some fans will only accept flex, their inlet and cable clamping arrangement won't allow T&E to be used, and again connecting it to the lighting is a common practice, nothing wrong with that except it should have an isolator for cleaning and maintenance.

If I were installing it from scratch, I would wire from the lighting circuit, in T&E to a dual pole isolator (one suitable for use in a bathroom, or installed outside of zones 1 & 2) and then to the fan, If the fan won't accept T&E then a ceiling rose or flex outlet in the loft will allow the transition to flex down to the fan. The latest regs require electrical equipment in bathrooms to have RCD protection.

I have a PIR sensor with 15 minute 'overun' in my bathroom that detects occupancy and switches the fan on. This keeps it separate from the lights, and the fan has an integral pull cord if we don't want it on at all.

stem said:

leonlikestrees said:

it's just very untidy (nothing screwed or fixed in place, not particularly neat trimming of cables

Click to expand...

It's common for cables in lofts not to be fixed in place. But it's a good idea to fix them especially, if you are intending to use the loft space and may disturb them. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "not particularly neat trimming of cables" but it does suggest amateur installation, I would be concerned if the cables were not properly terminated, and that the insulation and / or sheath stripped back too far.

Click to expand...

That's exactly it - sheath stripped back to far. Nothing I can't tidy up though.

stem said:

leonlikestrees said:

and no fire guards for the down-lighters, even though they are nicely wrapped up in insulation.

Click to expand...

Why do you think you need fire guards? They are only necessary where there is another habitable dwelling above, ie in flats. The insulation is definitely wrong though. Most manufacturers recommend several inches clearance for the insulation. I have seen some badly burned because of this. This should get urgent attention.

Click to expand...

Thanks - in my last house I had an electrician wire up my new bathroom, and he said fireguards were required under building regs - is that not the case (it is just a loft). Fireguards seem a good way of keepint the insulation away from the back of the light though - ir is it just a case of cutting a big square out of the insulation and leaving it at that?

stem said:

leonlikestrees said:

The extractor fan. It's just wired directly off the switched live and neutral of one of the down-lights, using what looks like a bit of flex from a lamp.

Click to expand...

Some fans will only accept flex, their inlet and cable clamping arrangement won't allow T&E to be used, and again connecting it to the lighting is a common practice, nothing wrong with that except it should have an isolator for cleaning and maintenance.

If I were installing it from scratch, I would wire from the lighting circuit, in T&E to a dual pole isolator (one suitable for use in a bathroom, or installed outside of zones 1 & 2) and then to the fan, If the fan won't accept T&E then a ceiling rose or flex outlet in the loft will allow the transition to flex down to the fan. The latest regs require electrical equipment in bathrooms to have RCD protection.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll have a closer look at what I can do, and put a fused isolator switch in I think. That's the most straightforward thing to do. My consumer unit is a modern RCD one - is that enough?

stem said:

I have a PIR sensor with 15 minute 'overrun' in my bathroom that detects occupancy and switches the fan on. This keeps it separate from the lights, and the fan has an integral pull cord if we don't want it on at all.

Click to expand...

I like that idea.

leonlikestrees said:

Fireguards seem a good way of keepint the insulation away from the back of the light though - ir is it just a case of cutting a big square out of the insulation and leaving it at that?

Click to expand...

You can fit fire hoods if you like, AFAIK they are only required where the building regulations state that the fire rating of the ceiling must be maintained, such as above a garage, or below another dwelling. Some feel that fire hoods prevent heat escaping from the fittings and can shorten bulb life. If you don't fit them, make sure that the insulation is well clear of the bulbs on all sides, or fit LED's that don't emit heat. (The danger here of course is that someone else may change the LED's back to halogen in the future)