Shoddy work giving tradesmen a bad name.

RB2004 · 22 Mar 2010

Hi.. just thought id post about it.. will try and get some pics if I can at some point.

but like most of you professional plumbers, I tend to pride in my work and do things properly.. or maybe Im just a bit old fashioned?

but I like using the traditional end feed copper fittings.. and generally making a neat job.. when plumbing in a sink I shove all the pipework behind the kitchen unit.. and bring 2 pipes through right below the kitchen sink so they just go up into 2 isolators, then onto the taps with hardly any pipework showing.. then I bond everything together, try to avoid using flexible hoses as I havent actually come accross a situation where a pipe bender/spring hasnt been more than sufficient, if not more permant and neater.

but today I went onsite and came accross some rather shocking plumbing.. well from my point of view anyway... in the bathroom a radiator was moved.. but instead of altering the pipework.. 2 rather extra long flexible hoses were attached to the radiator instead.. run through the floorboards and curled up under the floor because they was so long.. whole entire bathroom pipework was done with plastic pipe, nothing boxed in so was all on show, not clipped.

then there was ball type isolators on the pipes that feed the upstairs bathroom.. that had been boxed in, and I imagine would be quite restrictive on the water flow to the bath. But unless you knew they had been boxed in.. would never know they was there

and in the kitchen the copper pipes dont line up, so they did a similar thing to what they did with the radiators, extra long flexible hoses.

now to me, that just comes accross as really unprofessional.. and looked a complete mess.

but the sad thing about it, whoever buys that house will think a trades person has done that. and certainly its this kind of shoddy work, and attitude by developers that any problems are the new homeowners problem.. that is whats causing problems for people in the trade who genuinely do a good job.

sad thing is, when doing a property development like that theres no real excuse for not doing things to a professional and high standard.. copper fittings are cheaper than plastic, they look tidier, and neater.

lol now im sure somebody will probably come along now and slate me saying theres nothing wrong with plastic and flexible hoses... but regardless to say, this was exceptionaly shocking.

dextrous · 22 Mar 2010

How do you know it was the work of a plumber? Could have been jack of no trades master of fewer who done it. Or it could have been seco services - he's based in essex somewhere

RB2004 · 22 Mar 2010

dextrous said:
How do you know it was the work of a plumber? Could have been jack of no trades master of fewer who done it. Or it could have been seco services - he's based in essex somewhere

it wasnt a plumber, it was a pair of property developers lol.
but whoever buys the house will probably look at it and assume some tradesperson may of done it.. especially if they dont realise the house was subject to a property development.

but even still.. regardless of who did it the work is still pretty shoddy... as above maybe im just a bit of a traditionallist and old fashioned lol.. but extra long flexible hoses on a radiator? curled up under the floorboards? and boxed in isolators that cant be seen and restrict the flow?

it was that kind of shoddy electrical work that got part P introduced.. that and DIYers who didnt know as much as they needed to.

Agile · 22 Mar 2010

I am sorry that you are so shocked.

But you seem to blame the half life who did the work rather than the builder or owner who employed him because he was cheaper than the professional.

The Polish tell be that their best tradesmen stay at home because they have plenty of work and the only ones coming over here are the rubbish workers!

Tony

RB2004 · 22 Mar 2010

Agile said:
I am sorry that you are so shocked.

But you seem to blame the half life who did the work rather than the builder or owner who employed him because he was cheaper than the professional.

The Polish tell be that their best tradesmen stay at home because they have plenty of work and the only ones coming over here are the rubbish workers!

Tony

it was done by a pair of property developers, they are the ones who own the property:S and they are doing their own work lol.

just think, if they are going to do shoddy work like that its giving people in the trade a bad name.. and if they are incapable shoulnt be doing property development.. or getting in the relevant professions to do it properly... another example of bad workmanship on this site was how not only was a spur junctionbox buried under the kitchen floorboards.. which isnt permissable.. but they shoved the laminate flooring over the top of the floorboards.. then the kitchen on top.. so if anything happens with that junction box the whole kitchen and floor has to be ripped out.

way i see it is, I wouldnt want to buy a house in that state.. so why stitch up somebody else like that?.. if the jobs worth doing, you do it properly... if your nto capable then you get somebody in... and when you do a job you should do it to a standard you would do in your own home..if you wouldnt do it that way.. then why would it be acceptable to ask somebody else to live with a half rate job?

Ive actually turned down jobs where people have tried to get me to do them on the cheap to save money... tried that once before years ago, done a job on the cheap to suit the customer.. then when things werent right.. the customer was kind enough to blame it on me for bad workmanship.. and tell their friends it was me who was the problem... even though it was because of them it was substandard.. so now I do things to the best of my ability.. and it costs as much as it costs to do it properly, if they dont like it they can find somebody else who is prepared to cut corners.. never had any complaints since

tamz · 23 Mar 2010

Plastic pipe will be the ruin of real tradesmen.

Have a look at this. It would be/is funny but i have seen similar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPSMBDQ5XwU

RB2004 · 23 Mar 2010

tamz said:
Plastic pipe will be the ruin of real tradesmen.

Have a look at this. It would be/is funny but i have seen similar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPSMBDQ5XwU[/QUOTE]

I agree.. I cant personally stand the stuff. Copper pipe with decent soldered endfeed fittings as far as Im concerned is alot neater than bulky plstic fittings, and alot more permanent.. no rubber seals to deteriate or leak... with copper once its done and leakfree it will generally remain that 1.

terrible thing is some plumbers are now using that stuff, 1 plumber I know of in the local area for example.. he plumbed in a central heating system in plastic.. and before the house was even certified it sprung a leak.. came through the ceiling and done a bit of damage, then now a few years later.. 1 of the bungalows next door had recently sprung a leak and flooded the place out.. both times it was the plastic pipe fittings failing.

same with flexible pipes.. I know they are handy and can quickly connect up akward pipes, but to be quite honest ive never had a problem with a pipe bender/spring.. ive never had to use them... and my reasoning is its just a weak link.. been out to a few cases where the flexible hose has been rubbing against a wall.. and over time it wears through the braid, then the internal rubber.. then you have a leak.

lol found that video funny.. those flexible pipes on the radiator! lol.. they look awfully like the ones I encountered lol.. will have to get some pics... and all that plastic pipe lol was the spitting image of thise property development project.... and its a real shame really because people who dont know it was done by amateuers will imediately think a plumber has done it.. then say to their friends.. well look at what this plumber has done in my house.. and that in turn just gives us all a bad reputation.

tamz · 23 Mar 2010

There are many plumbers who now use plastic but ask them what they have in their own house

RB2004 · 23 Mar 2010

tamz said:
There are many plumbers who now use plastic but ask them what they have in their own house

lol I know, and I know why they use it.. for speed and ease of use.

but its generally more expensive.. and doesnt look half as good... as above, I cant stand the stuff... because I have the rather crude oppinion.. if I wouldnt do it in my own house why do it in somebody elses house?

tamz · 23 Mar 2010

RB2004 said:
if I wouldnt do it in my own house why do it in somebody elses house?

That ideal will stand you in good stead all you working life. Continue to have pride in your work.

RB2004 · 23 Mar 2010

tamz said:
Continue to have pride in your work.

I certainly do

.. always take pride in my work lol and im a bit of a perfectionist.... just like things to be neat and tidy, and look good.

probably take it a bit too far though sometimes lol.

as above.. when I fit kitchen sinks in new kitchens, I will bring the 2 pipes through the back of the cabinet just below the bottom of the bowls dead in line with the tap connections, put a 90 on it, then isolators.. and from there connect up to the taps... all soldered of course.. except for the compression fitting on the isolators

end result is.. you look into the cuboard.. and see no imediately visible pipes... well not unless your deliberately looking for them lol.. and you can still turn the isolators on and off otherwise there wouldnt be much point in having them.

takes a bit longer to do, lol but a cuboard is for storing stuff in.. you dont want loads of obstructions and pipes everywhere unless you can help it.

thats why it peeves me a bit.. when like today I go into a house and see rediculasly long flexible hoses on a radiator all curled up under the floor.. isolators boxed in in-accessible places that will restrict flow.. and a whole entire bathroom done in plastic speedfit pipe.

way its heading with people carrying on like that will be like with the Electrical.. Part P.

lol introduction of a new part that prevents people doing plumbing in their own home.

tamz · 23 Mar 2010

RB2004 said:
when I fit kitchen sinks in new kitchens, I will bring the 2 pipes through the back of the cabinet just below the bottom of the bowls dead in line with the tap connections, put a 90 on it, then isolators..

Did that all my life..well since the 80's when fitted kitchens came in. Keep it neat.

When i served my time lead and cast was being replaced with plastic on drains. The old heads used to moan about it killing the trade as there was no skill involved.

Used to get a full day to fit a tub and sink, and it took all day. Wiped joints on 2 lead traps to jamb nut, grating screwed in from above and lead washer dressed to pop. Wiped ball joints to lead pipes. Bearers dooked in with lead. I could do a passable job of it but some of the stuff the old guys did was a work of art. Wish camera phones were out then.

The skill may be getting removed from some of the stuff we now fit but don't ever loose your pride in the job. They is a market for quality work, it is just harder to find. The longer you are out there the more known you will become for leaving a quality job. Price is not no1 priority for everyone.
Keep up the good work son

RB2004 · 23 Mar 2010

never used lead.. as you said above its not really used now at all unless its an existing installation, but you only have to look at it to know it must of taken some real skill to do, the way the joints had to be sweated.. even just joining onto copper without leaking lol.

as you said its a shame really as alot of the skills required are now dying... even just using copper pipe... plumbers are using plastic, and flexible hoses.. lol even in B&Q.. you can get some kind of adhesive now, that replaces solder:S.. you just clean the pipe.. brush the adhesive on and push the pipe together... no skill at all required... and it kind of takes the art out of plumbing because anybody can do it...but im a bit of a traditionalist lol so I will carry on using copper and solder

cant beat it lol.

and with the plastic drainpipes.. solvent weld! no push joints lol, those are another pet hate, push joints.. quite a few times ive had to deal with them where somebodys managed to dislodge the pipe.. they push it back togeth and it dislodges the seal and wont stop leaking.

certainly wont loose pride for my job

.. doesnt matter what it is, always want it to be right... and have a strong belief that a job costs as much as it costs if its to be done properly.. you cant do a good job by cutting corners.

just as you said it is harder to find the work, and people who are willing to pay for a quality job. lol.

PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN · 23 Mar 2010

I quoted for a well known support charity, apparently the first plumber did a runner and dissapeared before starting the work, my quote apparently was too high, next thing I hear is a "joiner" has gone round to measure up, a joiner for a disabled full strip out re-plumb shower tiling ect ect WTF !!!!! who cares, customers and society get the standard of work they deserve most of the time, the internet has sucked all the money out of the trade, and yet we are supposed to keep paying out for new regs all the time, ei flue anal-izers being one to mention, oh and the expense of getting a certificate to switch it on, so corners will always be cut to make up for not enough money in the jobs, tough titty on qaulity of work.

Nige F · 23 Mar 2010

RB2004 said:
tamz said:

Continue to have pride in your work.

Click to expand...

way its heading with people carrying on like that will be like with the Electrical.. Part P.

lol introduction of a new part that prevents people doing plumbing in their own home.

It will NEVER come to that in this has- been country

Plumbing is dead on it`s feet- and I am so lucky I winged it and am now retired . The only thing that matters now is Gas and Gas boilers with their " computers" inside. The Trade will be dead well before I am

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Shoddy work giving tradesmen a bad name.

dextrous

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