First course of sleeper retaining wall

jhp · 1 Apr 2010

Hi all

I've decided to build a retaining wall in my garden using new 8" thick treated sleepers. The wall is 1.8m high, so what I've thought to do is stagger the ends for strength and use steel ties and deadmen where possible to fasten to the rock behind.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should set the initial row? Some guides just stand the sleepers on gravel, others use rebar, and some concrete.

Due to the bedrock below my first row, digging for posts isn't really an option so I want to be sure it will be sturdy. Driving rebar in may be tricky but it may be my only option. I had wondered if the gravel is to aid in drainage so the wood doesn't rot?

Thanks for any advice

John

freddiemercurystwin · 1 Apr 2010

For a retaining wall 1.8m high you are advised to have it designed by a structural engineer, should it collapse (and the non-designed ones sometimes can) it could easily kill the victim beneath it at the time should it fail.

jhp · 1 Apr 2010

This one isn't really doing any retaining in the usual sense. I've excavated a cliff face in the back garden and really just want something to cover it up and perhaps hold back the bits of topsoil which sometimes spill over when it's raining.

The existing cliff face hasn't moved anywhere or dropped soil for at least 6 months, and has survived the winter without any issues.

Thermo · 1 Apr 2010

when we do them, we normally sink in vertical sleepers in post holes behind and then fix the sleepers to the front of them. We use a small amount of lean mix to bed them on, purely to get them level. They dont need any real bearing as long as youre on good soil as described. WHere it has been more of an issue we have laid them on a normal trench foundation with re-bar protruding behind and backfill behind with concrete.
we normally lay the horizonatal ones like brickwork. Not much point in securing the threaded rod into the rock, as if that moves then so does the wall.

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couple of examples

jhp · 5 Apr 2010

Thanks, Thermo. That second pic looks like the sort of thing we're after, I'm trying to do this with no or little concrete- an eco challenge!

What I'm going to go for is to lay the initial course on a trench of gravel, and drive some 4ft rebar through into the bedrock. Then each additional row I'll set back 1/2" to lean it into the hillside.

I've been reading up about using deadmen on the 3rd/4th row as a form of counterweight, so will put as many as possible in, and will keep the wall as low as I can get away with.

It'll be based on this design with the addition of rebar for the bottom row of sleepers:

Just out of interest does anyone know if the local authorities can insist on a garden wall being removed?

htgeng · 5 Apr 2010

when I did a retaining wall(approx 3 high on long edge) I found a website that had hundreds of projects done with sleepers. Some where done by pros some by DIY. Suggest you have a trawl on google. I think the company was based around leicester.

Thermo · 5 Apr 2010

jhp said:
Thanks, Thermo. That second pic looks like the sort of thing we're after, I'm trying to do this with no or little concrete- an eco challenge!

What I'm going to go for is to lay the initial course on a trench of gravel, and drive some 4ft rebar through into the bedrock. Then each additional row I'll set back 1/2" to lean it into the hillside.

I've been reading up about using deadmen on the 3rd/4th row as a form of counterweight, so will put as many as possible in, and will keep the wall as low as I can get away with.

It'll be based on this design with the addition of rebar for the bottom row of sleepers:

Just out of interest does anyone know if the local authorities can insist on a garden wall being removed?

way over the top, but up to you. you can bed the first course on some mot if you prefer rather than concrete

jhp · 5 Apr 2010

htgeng: I know the one you mean, it's this isn't it?

http://www.railwaysleeper.com/Customers ideas, photos and projects.htm

Thermo: It's funny as depending who you speak to either say it'll flop right over or it won't.

I want to set a balcony rail along the inside so that's why I'm going for belt and braces. Nice to know that what I'm going to do is too much though, definitely better than not enough.

Thermo · 5 Apr 2010

lost count of how many weve done, using the vertical sleepers behind. never ever had any move, let alone flop over

maf20 · 6 Apr 2010

I am no expert, trust me!

However, I've done something similar and all on my jack jones; and I didn't go anywhere near those lengths. I used landscape sleepers laid horizontally. To fix them is I used 5" posts which were 2" in the ground fixed with concrete. I then sloped the posts between 3 and 5 degrees. I then also left a 1" gap between the soil that was being retained and the sleepers.

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They've been in just over two years and are not moving anywhere.

Good luck

htgeng · 6 Apr 2010

jhp said:
htgeng: I know the one you mean, it's this isn't it?

http://www.railwaysleeper.com/Customers ideas, photos and projects.htm

Yes thats the site! Amazing number of projects and a great way to waste a few hours trawling through the photos.

Mine was done similar to maf20. I used 8ft concrete fence posts buried in the ground, by 4ft. Angled these slightly to create a batter on the wall. Then just stacked sleepers long edge in a brick bond pattern. Each sleeper was bolted through the posts with 10mm studding. Big square washers and rounded nut on the face. Looks great and I must take some pics and upload to that site!

I used the really old sleepers - think they weighed at least 100kgs each! I had to adapt a sack barrow to put one end in, then two people drag the other end. Two of us couldn't lift one. The new softer wood sleepers as used by maf20 would be a P.O.P compared to the old ones.

Thermo · 7 Apr 2010

the new sleepers are great. so much lighter and easier to handle. nice and sqaure so they stack well. they cut easily and not full of creoste and other ****e that leaks out in hot weather and stinks.

Muzz · 14 Apr 2010

I built a sleeper retaining wall about 1.2m high using new sleepers.

I had removed the topsoil down to the compacted sub base, sunk fence posts a couple of foot into concrete and then coach bolted the sleepers to the post. I then capped it off with another sleeper sitting on the wide edge to hide the tops of the posts.

This lasted the 5 years I was in the house without moving at all.

Amusingly, my neighbours builder said to them I was doing it wrong and was just making more work for myself. Bit of a cheek since the block and mortar wall they built wasn't plumb and has now cracked and is leaning forwards.

Even more amusingly my neighbour decided to flatten his garden down to the retaining wall, to do so he dug down exposing the underground parts of the fence posts separating his garden with the house opposite's back garden. He then proceeded to nail gravel boards to the fence post bases to "retain" the soil and make it look good. I think you can guess what happened the first time it rained.

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First course of sleeper retaining wall

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