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Power Flushing


 
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NathLG

from United Kingdom

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Staffordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:09 pm Reply with quote

Hi,

Is power flushing a system generally worth it?

The combi I have is currently having little bouts of blockages and problems with overheating from time to time. I have been told from a plumber that a power flush will resolve these problems. All other aspects of the system have been checked (pump, ignition, etc)

Any advice would be great.

Thanks
Nath
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Andygasman2010

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:17 pm Reply with quote

Supose they're only worth it if you're not paying a fortune, and have a system bad enough to need one. If done propperly they can make a system run like new. Sometimes they won't clear blockages in combis, plate heat ex etc... There are lots of variables to consider.
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nogoodatfaultfinding

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:20 pm Reply with quote

NathLG wrote:
Hi,

Is power flushing a system generally worth it?

The combi I have is currently having little bouts of blockages and problems with overheating from time to time. I have been told from a plumber that a power flush will resolve these problems. All other aspects of the system have been checked (pump, ignition, etc)

Any advice would be great.

Thanks
Nath


Over heating on the CH or HW side?
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mickyg

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:42 pm Reply with quote

Depends on the system, the problem, etc...
Depends heavily on the person doing the flush, are they doing it properly? What kind of guarantee will they give you?
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Blackadder43

from United Kingdom

Joined: 16 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:44 pm Reply with quote

A power flush done correctly is a good thing.
A typical 3 bedroom house will take me a whole day.
Each rad individualy flushed and cleaned and checked....

If you are suffering blockages then a power flush done correctly will be a benefit for you...
Please dont get a large well known gas supplyer to do it......It will cost you a fortune and will only take half the day.......

I wont defend my trade against the naysayers here because its not worth it...

I cant guarantee anyones work where you live but i will guarantee my work here when i do it....
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NathLG

from United Kingdom

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Staffordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:05 pm Reply with quote

nogoodatfaultfinding wrote:
NathLG wrote:
Hi,

Is power flushing a system generally worth it?

The combi I have is currently having little bouts of blockages and problems with overheating from time to time. I have been told from a plumber that a power flush will resolve these problems. All other aspects of the system have been checked (pump, ignition, etc)

Any advice would be great.

Thanks
Nath


Over heating on the CH or HW side?


On the central heating side it seems. DHW has ok flow rate, but unless you open the taps fully the water will become ultra hot. From what I've read this would indicate some sort of blockage with the DHW heat exchanger .
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NathLG

from United Kingdom

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Staffordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:10 pm Reply with quote

mickyg wrote:
Depends on the system, the problem, etc...
Depends heavily on the person doing the flush, are they doing it properly? What kind of guarantee will they give you?


Cheers, they haven't given any guarantee- if anything them seem to be suggesting it as a last resort. The two problems the combi is having are both intermittent as hell and neither of the problems have so far happened when any gas engineer/plumber has been looking at it. I have had three different people look at. First one said don't waste any money on it (he then continued to try to up sell me to a new system). the second guy basically suggested to wait until it breaks down fully. the third guy did all the tests and came to the conclusion that a power flush 'should' fix it.

The system has 5 rads, he reckons half a days work will sort it. Does this sound about right?
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NathLG

from United Kingdom

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Staffordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:18 pm Reply with quote

Blackadder43 wrote:
A power flush done correctly is a good thing.
A typical 3 bedroom house will take me a whole day.
Each rad individualy flushed and cleaned and checked....

If you are suffering blockages then a power flush done correctly will be a benefit for you...
Please dont get a large well known gas supplyer to do it......It will cost you a fortune and will only take half the day.......

I wont defend my trade against the naysayers here because its not worth it...

I cant guarantee anyones work where you live but i will guarantee my work here when i do it....


Thanks for the info. The house in question is a small two bed cottage style, only 5 rads. The guy has said it will take half a day. Does that sound about right? The thing I don't understand fully is that the system can be on for hours sometimes days without an f3 fault code shown (this fault code in the manual is a blocked heat exchanger either dhw or ch). If there were a blockage shouldn't the problem be more permanent? We are also getting an f1 fault code which indicates over heating as well. We only get this fault code every so often. Having read plenty on the well known gas suppliers work I certainly wouldn't use them.

Could the over heating problem actually be something more simple like a faulty thermistor? Couldn't the 'blockage' fault code be actually something like the pump being on its way out?

The combi must be between 7 and 10 years old. Is it even worth spending money on it now anyway?

Thanks for all the help everyone
Nath
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Blackadder43

from United Kingdom

Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 97
Location: Somerset,
United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:33 am Reply with quote

Ok problem you seem to have is that some of the sludge,scale and crap has found its way to the heat exchanger......
Funnily enough my dads was the same last year, it took me 2 power flushes to solve it.....
Second time round is when i bought the pump attachment for my machine and flushed it directly from the boilers pump....this shifted quite a few lumps of crud (yes i was sad enough to put the drain water through a filter to see what came out)

Yes 5 rads can be done in half a day but i would still allow a whole day because i dont just turn up, power flush, take money and tip my hat goodbye....(I dont base my prices on hourly rate, i have set prices with a minimum price no matter how many rads you have....reason for this is chemicals, the price i paid for my machine, my experience and just because......which is why i would be with you all day to solve your problem)
I dont diagnose a power flush unless i am pretty certain this will solve their problems......

I dont know your plumber but if i am 100% sure that the system is dirty enough to be causing the problem my customer has then i always offer to do a second power flush free of charge except for the chemicals which i ask them to pay for...
So far i have only ever had to do this once and that was a micro bore system....

The intermittent side of things are circumstansial....if the crud sits in a place where it doesnt block some of the heat exchanger then all is well, if it moves to a place where it partialy blocks it then it will possibly kick the overheat stat in
Although with my dads what would happen is the crud would block the exchanger and cause a noise like a jet engine (he described it) and then loud banging noises through the boiler..
The exchanger would get blocked under the right conditions and cause the heat exchanger to be starved of water causing said exchanger to flash steam and cause the banging.....

Hope some of this dribble helps you....
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NathLG (23 Apr 2010)
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Blackadder43

from United Kingdom

Joined: 16 Apr 2010
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Location: Somerset,
United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:41 am Reply with quote

Quote:
The combi must be between 7 and 10 years old. Is it even worth spending money on it now anyway?

If you were contemplating having a new boiler i would recommend you have a power flush before fitting it ......

So technicaly you are not wasting money...

Please think though, because i havent seen your system or seen what happens when it goes wrong i cant realy say wether you need a power flush or not.......
This is where my trade comes into disrepute...some people (large gas supplying company) use the power flush as a magic fix all thing....then when it doesnt cure the problem they start fault finding.....after relieving you of up to 650 depending on house size......
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NathLG

from United Kingdom

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Staffordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:03 pm Reply with quote

Blackadder43 wrote:
Ok problem you seem to have is that some of the sludge,scale and crap has found its way to the heat exchanger......
Funnily enough my dads was the same last year, it took me 2 power flushes to solve it.....
Second time round is when i bought the pump attachment for my machine and flushed it directly from the boilers pump....this shifted quite a few lumps of crud (yes i was sad enough to put the drain water through a filter to see what came out)

Yes 5 rads can be done in half a day but i would still allow a whole day because i dont just turn up, power flush, take money and tip my hat goodbye....(I dont base my prices on hourly rate, i have set prices with a minimum price no matter how many rads you have....reason for this is chemicals, the price i paid for my machine, my experience and just because......which is why i would be with you all day to solve your problem)
I dont diagnose a power flush unless i am pretty certain this will solve their problems......

I dont know your plumber but if i am 100% sure that the system is dirty enough to be causing the problem my customer has then i always offer to do a second power flush free of charge except for the chemicals which i ask them to pay for...
So far i have only ever had to do this once and that was a micro bore system....

The intermittent side of things are circumstansial....if the crud sits in a place where it doesnt block some of the heat exchanger then all is well, if it moves to a place where it partialy blocks it then it will possibly kick the overheat stat in
Although with my dads what would happen is the crud would block the exchanger and cause a noise like a jet engine (he described it) and then loud banging noises through the boiler..
The exchanger would get blocked under the right conditions and cause the heat exchanger to be starved of water causing said exchanger to flash steam and cause the banging.....

Hope some of this dribble helps you....


everything you have said makes perfect sense and rings completely true. thanks for that. the guy who is performing the flush certainly seems to know what he is on about and he has tested everything else first.He has told me if I had a new combi that a power flush should be done just like what you have said, so I know that he isn't trying to get me to have it for the sake of it.

From everything I have read, its seems that a power flush is worth a try. In terms of hours on the job, when I have spoke to him, he has made it clear that he wants to do it properly and not just fit the job in.

Its funny what you say about the well known gas supplier - slightly off topic - a friend at work says that they have had a leaflet through saying they are now offering interest free credit on a new boiler with fitting, I doubt the leaflet explains that they charge 'x' amount more in the first place.
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ROSSGR

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Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 75
Location: Glasgow,
United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:07 pm Reply with quote

RE: the major supplier who is supplying 0% on new boilers

Quoted a customer 2020 to replace a response 80 with a greenstar 24, upgrade gas pipe/sort electrics (no earthing,stats wired up incorrectly etc)

When you cosider the 0% for 12 months it is a pretty decent price.

Local guys were charging 1800 for just a boiler swap last year.

SO they are not that bad now are they................................
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NathLG

from United Kingdom

Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Staffordshire,
United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:42 pm Reply with quote

ROSSGR wrote:
RE: the major supplier who is supplying 0% on new boilers

Quoted a customer 2020 to replace a response 80 with a greenstar 24, upgrade gas pipe/sort electrics (no earthing,stats wired up incorrectly etc)

When you cosider the 0% for 12 months it is a pretty decent price.

Local guys were charging 1800 for just a boiler swap last year.

SO they are not that bad now are they................................


I agree that doesn't sound too bad, in the midlands area I have been quoted anything from 800 to 1200 from various companies, but that would be a direct combi swap with power flush and all things like that done included. In our one off case the earthing etc is ok. I suppose the point I was trying to make is that people should always get a few quotes before diving in. Typically 0% deals lull people into a sense that they saving, when it sometimes they aren't.

Just one more point - I assume from your post that you work for the said gas supplier? Hats off to you, there seems to be lots of trade people who diss the said gas supplier but like I said the 0% deal sounds good to me and I didn't mean to sound sceptical without having the full info.
Nath
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ROSSGR

from United Kingdom

Joined: 27 Apr 2009
Posts: 75
Location: Glasgow,
United Kingdom
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:05 pm Reply with quote

Yeah, I do work for them. They do get a bad reputation from certain people but as a lot of people have said, there are good and bad engineers everywhere.

The prices are a lot better, us engineers were complaining about the prices for years, they have now either took notice or their business plan has changed.

The fact that independents have now got to reduce their prices show that they were creaming more profit due to British gas prices previously so some should not be too quick off the mark in slagging them/us.

I have sold 3 powerflushes so far this year, usually sell about 1 per year so have been very lucky so far. Only sell if their systems is really bad, and it is not an old boiler on the system. If that's the case then I advise them to put the money towards a new chb/cleanse at the same timer wether it be with us or a 3rd party doing the work. The newer boilers we can get out there the better it is for us. No point spending 600 cleaning an old system, then the old boiler goes kaput 3 months later, cust not happy having to spend more. It's called best advice but not all advice given by a lot of engineers is just sales target reaching but that's life nowadays for all companies.
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MUFC1999

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Joined: 21 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:39 pm Reply with quote

NathLG wrote:
Blackadder43 wrote:
Ok problem you seem to have is that some of the sludge,scale and crap has found its way to the heat exchanger......
Funnily enough my dads was the same last year, it took me 2 power flushes to solve it.....
Second time round is when i bought the pump attachment for my machine and flushed it directly from the boilers pump....this shifted quite a few lumps of crud (yes i was sad enough to put the drain water through a filter to see what came out)

Yes 5 rads can be done in half a day but i would still allow a whole day because i dont just turn up, power flush, take money and tip my hat goodbye....(I dont base my prices on hourly rate, i have set prices with a minimum price no matter how many rads you have....reason for this is chemicals, the price i paid for my machine, my experience and just because......which is why i would be with you all day to solve your problem)
I dont diagnose a power flush unless i am pretty certain this will solve their problems......

I dont know your plumber but if i am 100% sure that the system is dirty enough to be causing the problem my customer has then i always offer to do a second power flush free of charge except for the chemicals which i ask them to pay for...
So far i have only ever had to do this once and that was a micro bore system....

The intermittent side of things are circumstansial....if the crud sits in a place where it doesnt block some of the heat exchanger then all is well, if it moves to a place where it partialy blocks it then it will possibly kick the overheat stat in
Although with my dads what would happen is the crud would block the exchanger and cause a noise like a jet engine (he described it) and then loud banging noises through the boiler..
The exchanger would get blocked under the right conditions and cause the heat exchanger to be starved of water causing said exchanger to flash steam and cause the banging.....

Hope some of this dribble helps you....


everything you have said makes perfect sense and rings completely true. thanks for that. the guy who is performing the flush certainly seems to know what he is on about and he has tested everything else first.He has told me if I had a new combi that a power flush should be done just like what you have said, so I know that he isn't trying to get me to have it for the sake of it.

From everything I have read, its seems that a power flush is worth a try. In terms of hours on the job, when I have spoke to him, he has made it clear that he wants to do it properly and not just fit the job in.

Its funny what you say about the well known gas supplier - slightly off topic - a friend at work says that they have had a leaflet through saying they are now offering interest free credit on a new boiler with fitting, I doubt the leaflet explains that they charge 'x' amount more in the first place.


What you say is actually no longer true, the well known gas supplier has dropped its prices dramatically to be competative with the RGI's on installation, due to the fact 9 out of 10 customers on a massive nationwide survey would choose well known gas company over any1 else if the prices were the same or even similar give or take, just a little something i heard
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