Primatic system?

gwte · 25 May 2010

Last week I had 4 radiators fitted by a plumber. The heating is working but not the hot water. When he returned he said we had a primatic system and was unsure what to do. He has promised to return on 3 occasions and has not done so. He is now on holiday for two weeks.
From what I understand there is supposed to be an airbubble which keeps the 2 systems separate. I've tried some suggestions that I've found on the internet- leaving the hot tap running for an hour, draining the system and refilling it whilst leaving a hot tap running.
I'd be very grateful for any suggestions even if it means repeating what I've already done.

Andygasman2010 · 25 May 2010

Usually draining/refilling the system WITHOUT the tap running works for me. Are you sure it's primatic? How about uploading a photo of the cylinder and connections?

It may be blocked at the cylinder... Does the top cylinder connection get warm at all? (without the heating on)

gwte · 25 May 2010

Many thanks for the swift reply.

I don't think I'll be able to upload a photograph. It was the plumber who said it was a primatic system.

The tank is slightly warm at the minute but this is probably because I had the immersion on yesterday.

At the moment I have the system set to heat the water and most of the radiators upstairs are warm except the one in the bathroom which used to get warm when just the hot water was on.

The last time this happened was when I changed a radiator about 5 years ago and I managed to clear it by ruuning a hose from the cold water to a hot water tap. The plumber said this wouldn't work and ran cold water through the hot water using the washing machine connector. It didn't work but lots of water came running outside from an overflow connected to the hot water system. However it did look as though there was air coming out with the water.

twgas · 25 May 2010

Do you have 1 or 2 tanks in the loft (or above the cylinder) and/or a red expansion vessel.

gwte · 25 May 2010

1 tank just above the cylinder. It was replaced about 15 years ago for a plastic one. There are no water tanks in the loft.

Andygasman2010 · 25 May 2010

What boiler do you have? If you could pull the thermostat phial out and let it boil a little maybe that'd shift an air lock. This might be a bit much for a diy'er depending on your boiler.

Like I said earlier, it could still be a blockage.

gwte · 25 May 2010

It's a baxi bermuda inset 2. I Wouldn't know how to remove the thermostat-although I know someone who could.

If it is a blockage how could I clear it?

Andygasman2010 · 25 May 2010

Ah a back boiler, no you wouldn't be able to remove the thermostat phial, you'll need to get an RGI in to do that. Other than what you've done already I can't really offer you anything else. It's difficult to advise without seeing the pipework set-up and cylinder etc...

On the side of the cylinder there are two pipes one above the other. The top one can block-up where in enters the cylinder sometimes.

Just to make sure... Turn off the cold feed to the tank in the loft, drain the system fully, refill and give it a go. You've probably already tried this but just thought i'd check.

gwte · 26 May 2010

Sorry for late reply. Just got back from work. Have already drained system with cold feed closed off. May yet try to drain system again.
The cylinder has one pipe at the top and one each on either side. One of those on the side is the cold feed and I suspect that the other may be the pipe that feeds in the hot water-it's very cool at the momeny even though the water heater from the boiler has been on for at least an hour.

Andygasman2010 · 26 May 2010

3 pipes altogether? There should be 4. One in the middle on the side with another one 12 inches or so beneath it.

I'm affraid without seeing it i can't really offer you anymore advice

gwte · 26 May 2010

Oops there are 4. Don't know whether that helps.

1CANHELP · 26 May 2010

GWTE,

When you say you had 5 radiators fitted, did you mean an extra five radiators or if replaced, were the 5 radiators larger than the original 5.

Reason being is that the primary circulation capacity may now be to large and when heated you lose the air bubble...no air bubble no hot water.

If the plumber is a real plumber and I mean apprentice trained with experience...then fault finding a primatic shuold not be a problem.

gwte · 26 May 2010

Hello it was 4 radiators that were replaced and they were almost the same size-the originals were measured in inches and the new ones in milimetres. the reason I had them changed (and now wish I hadn't) was that they were old and three of them had the inlet and outlet at the same entry on the radiator.
The plumber was recommended (needless to say I won't be recommending him) and has been a plumber for a number of years - at least 20. The problem is that he is now on holiday for 2 weeks and the only way I have of heating the water is by using the immersion heater.
I've asked questions on this forum to try and fix it myself but I suspect that I'll need to get in another plumber-except this time I'll be asking if they have any experience of a primatic system.

1CANHELP · 26 May 2010

Gwte,

you will have 4 pipes coming off the hot water cylinder. one off the top (hot water draw off)......one off the bottom this will be on it's own i.e no other pipe directly above it (cold feed)

you will then be left with two pipes on the opposite side about 12-15 inches apart one pipe directly above the other.

These are the primary flow and returns. the top one of the two the primary flow!

select hot water only, and after 10 mins or so put your hand on the priamry flow. if it is hot and you still don't have hot water then there is a blockage in the primary flow.

If it is luke warm the bubble has gone.

Primatics are simple but troublesome peices of cr4p, a decent plumber should only take 1/2 hour to diagnose, to repair put right well..how longs a peice of string.

gwte · 26 May 2010

Pipe luke warm. It's as I suspected all along the airbubble has gone. Best way to get it back? The plumber's not back for another week and a half.

Until now there hasn't been a problem with the system even when 3 radiators were added 15 years ago as part of an extension to the house.

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Primatic system?

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