Is this allowed? Light fitting (with pictures)

Hi everyone,

I'm wanting to change the bathroom light fitting in our newly built home.

I've got a nice new bathroom light as I wanted to change the standard "globe" light that the builders put it.

My problem is when I took their light down I saw this...:



No earth, no red sleeves. I'm no professional but I know what to expect!! This isn't it!



Can you see the terminal block stuffed into the ceiling void? It's got three wires in it, presumably the lives. No tape wrapped around it at all.

So here I am trying to do a job properly, with my chocbox ready etc etc and this is what I find.

Is this 'legal'? Do I need to get the builders in to tear the ceiling apart or should I turn a blind eye and do what they do?

And another question if anyone has the time. My new light fitting is flush to the ceiling, how do I get a chocbox in that small gap, when the wires are fed through a hole through a ceiling joist??

Simon.

If you get up in the loft above the bathroom you will be able to find the junction box without pulling the ceiling down. The old light can be disconnected and lowered down to a helper in the bathroom so it doesn't drop. Now simply feed the wires from the new light fitting through the same route as the old one and connect as required at the junction box. You should not use chock block.

Above the bathroom is another floor, so I can't go into the loft and the floor above is laminated so I can't take the floorboards up!!

Will it be possible to pull the wires up and out and take them out of the hole in the joist or is that too difficult? I'm now wondering what the electrician will do when the builder sends him round.

The alternative is to just forget about it and leave it as it is?

Simon.

new sparky: multiplex said chocbox not chock block, its a clear junction box. Go into attic make off connection in your chocbox and wire a lenth of two or three core flex through ceiling into your new fitting ( two core if its double insulated )

Sorry I just noticed that you said I shouldn't use chocbox? Why not?!

Also I'm no sparky, but is there going to be a junction box if the live wires are currently stuffed into a bit of terminal block? Doesn't that mean a junction box hasn't been used??

Simon.

You are quite right its not very good.
Legal well, maybe, maybe not, certainly not something any quality sparks would be proud of, and not to the spirit of the wiring regs either . That said this quality remarkably common from the work to cost type of contractors.
There should really have been either be a loop through rose, or a junction box in a place you can get to it. As a minimun the chock block should have been be boxed up or brought down into the lamp body to make an ad hoc junction box. Even with a JB under the floor above then the 'inspectable connection' recommendation has been broken, unless a section of floor lifts.
However, unless you are going to cut big holes and have removable panels, either in the floor or the ceiling, then you are a bit stuck.
Is there enough slack to bring all the ends into the room, and could you mount the light in such a way as to cover a plasterboard mounting box (perhaps a circular one) into which this can be more neatly wired ? http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MTMDLB6.html shows the sort of thing I'm waffling on about.
Otherwise try a word with the builders, but I suspect they'll say its not their problem, and while it looks horrible its not immediately dangerous.

As I said, I don't know the regs myself. But I thought that the earth should be available (it isn't) and there should be red sleeving on the live wire? Also having a bit of unprotected connector block stuck in the ceiling is against regs? This is a bathroom afterall, and above it is another bathroom!!

That plasterboard mounting box looks very good, I hadn't seen one of those before. At the moment I don't know how much slack is in the wires, so I've put the old light back now and I'll just wait and see if the on site electrician can do anything.

Simon.

yes, earth should be available if it is likely that a class 1 (metal body needs an earth) fitting might one day be used, and if the existing colour of the live conductor is not already red or brown, the wire should be clearly marked by sleeving in that colour or by indelible labeling. However, these parts of the regs are not legally enforceable, as they are not the essential safety requirements. However, you need a better reason than "couldn't be bothered" to ignore them, and in this case I can see no good reason other than laziness.
The other way to make a neat-ish access cover not under the light itself is to use one of the plasterboard mounting boxes with a lid http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MTLID.html. While these can painted over or carefully artexed, while still preserving the ability to open them up if needed , they aren't that beautiful to behold. This is more use for fluorescent lights where there is no desire to fit a dummy ceiling rose just to hold all the loop-in wiring.
The other question, if the earthing is a bit hit-and-miss, is if the cross bonding has been done - that is a safety thing that really should be inspected. Has the work been done under part P or does it predate Jan 1st. If post part P someone should provide you with a copy of the test certificate, showing all this. Even pre- part P, the better electricians would have provided this.