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Ideal Mini C24 - "Lack of burner ignition"

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groovysheep

from United Kingdom

Joined: 28 Sep 2010
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Location: Glasgow,
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:51 pm Reply with quote

Please help, i'm now into my 4th week of no CH or DHW and about to tear my hair out!

My brother-in-law is Gas Safe registered fitter and has been trying to solve my problem with Ideal Mini C24 boiler, which he himself fitted in late 2006.

Initial replaced pump, and following diagnosis by Ideal technical helpline, replaced PCB. Everything worked fine for approx 6 hours then boiler locked out, was reset, but now fails to ignite.

Leds point to "Lack of burner ignition(no ignition signal from the full sequence ignition device)" and confirmed again by Ideal by email as unable to call in their working hours.

Their first response was as follows :

The LEDs do indicate ignition lockout, now this can be caused by air pressure switch not moving over, ignition pcb, ignition probes and gas valve. To enable us to correctly diagnose the fault we would need to know how far in the sequence the boiler gets to before locking out.

If your engineer could call from site we can go through fault finding checks and advise the cause"

Unfortunetely, my brother in law is working outside Glasgow during the day and is unable to be onsite while the technical helpline is open (closes at 5pm) so asked us to email a reply :

..." the boiler goes full cycle to ignite and it wont let gas through to ignite, it then locks out and red LED shows with red lock out light, when reset the same happens again."

Their reply was as follows:

"...carry out the following checks as the boiler is going through its ignition sequence.

When the fan runs ensure there is 240v on the dark blue wire from the air pressure switch (normally open side), after the power goes through the overheat stat on the right hand side of the heat exchanger. With voltage present at both of these points ignition takes place and 240v is passes to the gas valve this lifts at ignition rate of 6mb. Detection then takes place and the boiler will increase to full rate."

Bro-in-law came down tonight, but didnt have multimeter to check voltage. Check all parts, but noticed a resistor (R24) on pcb looks possibly burnt out. However, on comparing the new pcb with original pcb, original had no resistor at R24.

My dad is more electrical minded and brought a multimeter over tonight, but unsure exactly where he should be testing. He checked voltage getting to gas valve - showing 100 - 130v ??!

I have also purchased new electrodes (2 ignition and detection) as wire from one looked damaged (cut and reattached via connection block) - but now unsure if probes are to blame as boiler attempts to light (click click sounds and can see spark, similar to cooker ignition sound).

Any ideas where we go from here? have only spent 70 so far, and being only 4 yrs old, i would hope its repairable and not new boiler needed. I have a young family and cannot afford this outlay, but also cannot continue with no heating with temp dropping outside recently.

Sorry for long post! Very frustrated home owner in need of assistance - or will i have to bite the bullet and ask Ideal out to look at it? If so, can anyone advise the likely cost of this?
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kevplumb

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:59 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
have also purchased new electrodes (2 ignition and detection) as wire from one looked damaged (cut and reattached via connection block) - but now unsure if probes are to blame as boiler attempts to light (click click sounds and can see spark, similar to cooker ignition sound).


you are joking icon_question.gif
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groovysheep

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:02 pm Reply with quote

Joking with what?

the wire that was damaged was not the one coming from the probe, but the connection wire to the pcb - if that makes sense.

I have limited electrical knowledge myself, but am assured by my reg gas fitter that this is safe.
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kevplumb

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:09 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
When the fan runs ensure there is 240v on the dark blue wire from the air pressure switch (normally open side), after the power goes through the overheat stat on the right hand side of the heat exchanger. With voltage present at both of these points ignition takes place and 240v is passes to the gas valve this lifts at ignition rate of 6mb. Detection then takes place and the boiler will increase to full rate."


Quote:
My dad is more electrical minded and brought a multimeter over tonight, but unsure exactly where he should be testing. He checked voltage getting to gas valve - showing 100 - 130v ??!


spot the prob icon_idea.gif

yer man might be reg but icon_rolleyes.gif
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groovysheep

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Location: Glasgow,
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:13 pm Reply with quote

No the person checking the voltage was my dad - my bro-in-law is reg fitter - but didnt have access to meter earlier tonight when he was here. My dad popped over and has left meter with me, so hopefully bro-in-law can follow this instruction, but cannot come back until after work tomorrow.

Do you know what the likely cause of the problem could be following this check?

How much am i looking at to get Ideal out to diagnose?

Skint and cold young mum here - just looking for a step in the right direction.
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kevplumb

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:18 pm Reply with quote

read my last post again in regard to the voltages icon_idea.gif

gas valve needs 240 its getting 130 icon_cry.gif
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groovysheep

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:21 pm Reply with quote

ok - fair do's i picked u up wrong.

What would be the cause of this?
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kevplumb

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:23 pm Reply with quote

the answer is in your first post
follow the voltage icon_wink.gif

tell you what leave it for now and post in the morning ive had a beer or 8

pref after 9 your time
i dont get up till 3 am icon_idea.gif
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groovysheep

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:35 pm Reply with quote

Thanks for your input - i'll ask my bro-in-law to do this.

At work until 5pm my time, so prob wont post til after this.

The most annoying thing is he had it working, all be it for but 6 hrs. Shouldnt have got my hopes up eh?
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kevplumb

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:37 pm Reply with quote

na icon_wink.gif
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gas4you

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:30 am Reply with quote

The ignition pcb is very prone to failing on these and can give intermittent results.
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Agile

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:36 am Reply with quote

Fitted after April 2005 then this should be a condensing boiler but it sounds as if its not !

Which PCb was replaced?

How can you replace a PCB costing about 100 and still have only spent 70 ?

How does your brother in law expect to diagnose boiler faults without a multimeter?

Tony
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groovysheep

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:25 pm Reply with quote

Now had British Gas out for a fixed price repair.

Diagnosed a faulty Gas valve. Went away, got it, and fitted it. CH working fine - but no hot water! He says there was a loose wire which he refitted and then the boiler returned back to its original fault state.

Upon speaking to the manufacturer, they now advise faulty pcb, AND replacement of the brand new gas valve (which is now broken).

I wont get into my arguement about how much they said they would charge, and how much they now want to charge me.

But.... any ideas ? am I being pulled a fly one? Should i pay their expensive price?
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kevplumb

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:29 pm Reply with quote

Quote:
Now had British Gas out for a fixed price repair.


but they didn't repair it



Quote:
Diagnosed a faulty Gas valve. Went away, got it, and fitted it. CH working fine - but no hot water! He says there was a loose wire which he refitted and then the boiler returned back to its original fault state.


get them back icon_rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Upon speaking to the manufacturer, they now advise faulty pcb, AND replacement of the brand new gas valve (which is now broken).


not your prob drop it on bg's toes icon_twisted.gif
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groovysheep

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Location: Glasgow,
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:08 pm Reply with quote

British Gas will come back - but not til Monday afternoon so another weekend of no heating or hot water icon_sad.gif
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