Need Advice on relays!

josh451 · 9 Nov 2010

Just need a bit of help....

I have a Euro Mini alarm which i need to trigger an LED when the power fails. I have one of the outputs set as Mains healthy, because the mains fail setting has a delay of 20 mins.

When the power fails, the mains healthy output de-activates immediatley, so would a relay be needed to activate the LED?

Any suggestion swould be great

Thanks

Note. The LED's and outputs are 12 volts DC

Alarm · 9 Nov 2010

Why not reduce the mails fail delay timer?
Its there in the programming.

What are you trying to achieve ( I know a LED to light) apart from that.
If the mains fails and you see the LED you must know the mains has failed anyway, no lights perhaps, no tv/pc/radio.

Anyway use the panel relay, why add another? Just invert its function.
You have 4 programable outputs on the board.

still cannot see why you want a led for this though???

mryoung · 9 Nov 2010

As above, no need for relay, use onboard output, program in change outputs.

Thought you were using an old galaxy 8?, or have you broken it?

Alarm · 9 Nov 2010

Think the mini is better than a old 8 anyway.

josh451 · 9 Nov 2010

The Galaxy "Died" a while back!

The panel doesn't have an onboard relay and its not an adjustable timer available for mains fail. I even rang castle care tech to confirm this.( Factory set at 20 mins he said because you aparently get mcb's popping all the time)

Alarm · 10 Nov 2010

Sorry had to recheck for the mini. You are correct in saying the mains fail is a pre set unchangeable timer.
Now for the other bit. You can change zones 7,8,9,10 to outputs., So infact you would have a 6 zone panel. This is in addition to outputs 1,2 &3.
1 being unused, 2 bell,3 strobe.
You obviously want 2 and 3. So use 1. don't change the zones (inputs) unless you want a 6 zone panel.
Go to outputs in programming and make 1 option 56 Global Fault 2, this is an INSTANT command for mains, battery, fuse or keypad fail. And overrides the preset mains delay timer ( This is normally filtered at ARC anyway).
The output is a negative applied on activation. So using the correct LED one leg to a hard positive and the other to the output.
It does not mention the MA rating of this so don't put more than a LED on there to be safe.
Hope this helps, I also now have all the literature for the Mini so ask away if you need more assistance.

mryoung · 10 Nov 2010

As above 4 of the outputs are shared with inputs

Sure the shared pgm outputs are rated @ 50mA max

Alarm · 10 Nov 2010

Ahh on another document, yeah 50ma. So not a lot really as I thought.
Afterall this is a cut down panel so to speak.

josh451 · 10 Nov 2010

Alarm said:
Sorry had to recheck for the mini. You are correct in saying the mains fail is a pre set unchangeable timer.
Now for the other bit. You can change zones 7,8,9,10 to outputs., So infact you would have a 6 zone panel. This is in addition to outputs 1,2 &3.
1 being unused, 2 bell,3 strobe.
You obviously want 2 and 3. So use 1. don't change the zones (inputs) unless you want a 6 zone panel.
Go to outputs in programming and make 1 option 56 Global Fault 2, this is an INSTANT command for mains, battery, fuse or keypad fail. And overrides the preset mains delay timer ( This is normally filtered at ARC anyway).
The output is a negative applied on activation. So using the correct LED one leg to a hard positive and the other to the output.
It does not mention the MA rating of this so don't put more than a LED on there to be safe.
Hope this helps, I also now have all the literature for the Mini so ask away if you need more assistance.

Right then...
Went into change outputs, changed to global fault 2, no luck. sat with mains off for 10 mins, alert lamp flashes to say that mains power has failed, but no LED. But when i test the output in engineer tests it works!

Any suggestions before the hammer gets involved!

Alarm · 10 Nov 2010

Test the output with mains off, it should activate instantly. Rather than toggling it.

56
Global Fault 2
Battery, keypad, mains and fuse faults any time

You could need a pull up resistor for the led, I know Mapiln do a all singing all dancing one for about 3 quid. Works on any voltage up to 24vdc.
I suppose you have tested the LED also?

josh451 · 10 Nov 2010

Yeah, I've tested the LED and it works when connected to the 12v-0v terminals. Programmed the output, exited engineer mode and then switched mains off, and it didn't work. Red wire from LED to 12v, black wire to PGM.

Any other suggestions, its really annoying me, is there something i've missed. Its usually something simple?

ps. when configured as mains healthy, when exiting engineer mode, the LED lights and goes off when the power fails, so i know its activating the output

Alarm · 10 Nov 2010

The preset timer must encompass this output type as well then. Wot a bummer!

Okay final solution a little relay. I assume you know how to wire, keeping the output as supply healthy.

Grrrrr silly little panel

josh451 · 10 Nov 2010

Alarm said:
The preset timer must encompass this output type as well then. Wot a bummer!

Okay final solution a little relay. I assume you know how to wire, keeping the output as supply healthy.

Grrrrr silly little panel

Not too good on wiring relays, Have any of you chaps got a wiring diagram for one?

Alarm · 10 Nov 2010

One there for you.
Think you clickon my name, then bell box and its next to it.

Not to scale obviously and terminals will be in diff positions but you should get the jist.

mryoung · 10 Nov 2010

Alarm said:
One there for you.
Think you clickon my name, then bell box and its next to it.

Not to scale obviously and terminals will be in diff positions but you should get the jist.

Wow, nice CAD

Image on my profile too.

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Need Advice on relays!

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