Installing two new ensuites

bob35 · 2 Jan 2011

Hi. I am intending to install ensuite into two adjoining bedrooms. The soil pipe distance to the furthest WC would be 5.2 Metres to the plastic existing soil/vent pipe. Would this be ok if installed under the floor in terms of fall? Floor void is approx 30cm.

Would it be possible to join the two new new wc's into the same soil pipe as they will only be approx 1 meter apart?

Can wastes from sink/shower be joined to soil pipe or would these need taking back to soil/vent stack?

Thanks for any advice with this planning stage.

Richard C · 2 Jan 2011

bob35 said:
I am intending to install ensuite into two adjoining bedrooms.

Constructing a room with a w/c is controlled building work & must comply with several Building Regulations which, apart from the drainage requirements, includes ventilation & possible sound insulation if stud walls are involved & an ajoining room is inhabitable (probably in your case) & Part P certification of any electrical work involved if showers or baths are involved. Whatever you do will require a BR submission notice (fee involved), inspection & must have a BR compliance certificate if you want to avoid problems in the future.

bob35 said:
The soil pipe distance to the furthest WC would be 5.2 Metres to the plastic existing soil/vent pipe. Would this be ok if installed under the floor in terms of fall? Floor void is approx 30cm.

Maximum length for unventilated W/C branch is 6m so in theory, yes but only for one loo. The fall required is minimum 18mm/m but that’s rather marginal & I always try to aim for a 25mm/m fall. There are also maximum lengths for waste pipe runs which you also need to consider.

bob35 said:
Would it be possible to join the two new new wc's into the same soil pipe as they will only be approx 1 meter apart?

Yes you can do that but you will need to provide ventilation to prevent problems with siphoning the loo traps.

bob35 said:
Can wastes from sink/shower be joined to soil pipe or would these need taking back to soil/vent stack?

Again it can be done but not advisable if you want to avoid problems; separate connections to the stack for sink/bath/shower waste are preferred but, if not, you need to fit anti siphon devices to the system to avoid trap siphoning.

bengasman · 2 Jan 2011

bob35 said:
Hi. I am intending to install ensuite into two adjoining bedrooms. The soil pipe distance to the furthest WC would be 5.2 Metres to the plastic existing soil/vent pipe. Would this be ok if installed under the floor in terms of fall? Floor void is approx 30cm.

Only in theory. In reality, you would be pushing it to the limit, which means zero room for anything that is not perfect.
Another question, what about rodding points?
Not to mention the joy when the floor below hears a solid number two coming through.
Apart from that, it's a great plan.

As above, it does indeed involve bc, and somebody who is authorised to sign of plumbing work, and electrics; probably needs to be part m compliant too.

Axel · 2 Jan 2011

Of course if you are staying there for a long time, a future buyer might not care how long this ensuite has been there for - might have been there when you moved in for all they know.

Bloody building control. If there's another flat downstairs I can see the point but if it's all your house then it's an intrusion of privacy.

bengasman · 2 Jan 2011

Axel said:
...Bloody building control. If there's another flat downstairs I can see the point but if it's all your house then it's an intrusion of privacy.

I'll remind you about that statement when you fall through the floor in the next house you buy because the previous owner didn't care about building regs.
Methinks you would also be more than a bit miffed when you clearly hear the bog-pipe running through the dining room sealing, after you've paid for the place. Personally, although I do know what happens to food in the human body, I don't want to be reminded of this when I'm having my dinner.

electronicsuk · 2 Jan 2011

Axel said:
Bloody building control. If there's another flat downstairs I can see the point but if it's all your house then it's an intrusion of privacy.

While I'm almost inclined to agree, it would be rather unfair on a future buyer to end up with a crappy DIY job that hasn't been carried out to the correct standards, which they will then have to pay to fix.

kirkgas · 2 Jan 2011

i know its not much help as i cant give you the name, but when i worked in the college they built a cracking eco house, which superceded all the latest and forthcoming reg changes, they used insulated soil pipe which was very quiet, as i said i cant remember the name of it, but a google search might get it, would be ideal for this type of thing

Axel · 2 Jan 2011

If it's not a new build then I would be checking these sort of things before buying. And stuff I can't see hasn't necessarily been checked by BC. It's not watertight. Bloody corrupt in my opinion.

Even a new build I wouldn't trust just because of a bunch of certificates.

I've seen & repaired enough shoddy work in houses bought by people from vendors with a fistfull of paperwork...

bengasman · 2 Jan 2011

Axel said:
..Even a new build I wouldn't trust just because of a bunch of certificates....

Even a new build? What do you mean: "even"?

Richard C · 2 Jan 2011

Three’s always those who think regulation is a total waste of time but not following it can cause a new & unsuspecting owner an awful lot of grief. They won’t necessarily know or even understand what the problems could be &, at worse, ignoring legislation can kill, one way or another. The only reason we are being saddled with more & more of it is because of ignorant DIY, total fools & outright cowboys in all of what used to be called “trades” & who increasingly have absolutely no idea what they are doing or simply just don’t care.

As one who’s work always follows Building Regulation legislation (& it’s not rocket science), personally, I’d like to see the current onus on the householder changed so that legislation is rigorously enforced to penalise those who actually do the work; but they could be the same of course. This would hopefully rid us of the “I know (don’t know) best, can’t see the point, won’t comply & generally don’t give a ****tte who it affects” brigade. It really ****es me off that some just think they can do what they want in this life no matter how many others it affects.

Axel · 3 Jan 2011

Fundamentally, I agree with your point, Richard, but in practice it's a big moneymaking scam - local authorities are too beaurocratic and the regs are over the top in some cases. I would love to move to some other country one day and be able to buy some land and build a house however the hell i want to! Obviously i would be wise to get photos and inspections of quality of work done that can't be inspected once it's built for the purpose of selling it at a better price to the next buyer.

I can see that without regulation, some firms might build poor and dangerous structures to make a quick buck, but perhaps yes the builders should have a minimal qualification / standard to adhere to. But then the scam will continue - huge fees for courses etc.

Old victorian houses were built at a time before building control - correct me if I am wrong, but they were quite well built, even if the techniques at the time were less technically advanced.

mbga9pgf · 3 Jan 2011

Richard C

Would you object to work being done with full compliance with building regs, but without notification and the expense that goes with?

Currently insulating and ventilating my home, insulation will surpass Oct2010 requirements by 25%, ventilation, I will do my best, but with the property dating back to 1800's, is difficult, but I will get there.

The problem I have with regs is that it seems to be a moneymaking scheme for trade bodies (funny old thing, as they make money) and the local council, who get to employ architects/sparkies/plumbers of the sandal wearing busybody variety that arent very good at their jobs and arent interested in novel solutions to problems if they havent seen it before.

In other words, complete and utter jobsworths.

Nige F · 3 Jan 2011

in my last house I installed a wc with a 25foot run under the ground floor - all build regs etc. for room and drain connection outside .

FFS Gas fitters stick to gas

I don`t know how much gas will flow in a given size of pipe - nor ever pretend to - I do know that water/ soil will flow in a 4 inch plastic drain @ as low as 1; 60 fall. 20+ years @ the other house with no problems - and there was a rodding eye outside that I never needed

Happy Gas Safe New Year

bob35 · 3 Jan 2011

Thanks for the responses.
I will vent the soil pipe to ensure no siphoning occurs and add sound insulation around pipe and in the ceiling void to limit noise!!

Will inform BC to keep them happy and in work!

Richard C · 3 Jan 2011

bob35 said:
and add sound insulation around pipe and in the ceiling void to limit noise!!

There are no BR’s governing sound insulation of the soil pipe specifically as far as I’m aware so that’s a blue kipper; or red herring, whichever you prefer

. The BR requirement involves sound insulating any stud walls you build between the bog & any adjacent habitable room; a bedroom is a habitable room but does not include the room the en-suite serves; so it's OK for your partner to hear you fart or throw up after a session but not the person in the room next door. To comply, sound insulation involves using either Wallboard 10 (not just standard 12.5mm wall board) or even better, 15mm Sound Block board but both must have mineral wool insulation within the stud.

bob35 said:
Will inform BC to keep them happy and in work!

The comments others have made maybe confusing the issue for you or even affecting your judgement. BR’s mostly exist for good reason & although I agree that some seem to defy common sense, that’s the name of the game. It’s not about keeping your LABC happy or in work, although it obviously helps; as individuals, they mostly won't give a stuff but some may take great delight in enforcement given the oportunity to do so. It’s all about you having peace of mind that you don’t have any non compliant building works in your home that could affect a future resale or which could affect any insurance claim that could in any way be connected with non compliant building works, even if they are not at fault or to blame. Give any insurance company even the slightest opportunity not to pay your claim & they will refuse it, especially these days.

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Installing two new ensuites

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