Recessed led lighting for bathroom shower area

festive · 12 Jan 2011

We have celotex flat roof and were informed recessed ceiling lights are not permitted due to heat and sweating caused. I gather we can use led as there is little or no heat? Can anyone recommend some ip rated recessed lighting for bathrooms thanks.

riveralt · 12 Jan 2011

festive said:
We have celotex flat roof and were informed recessed ceiling lights are not permitted due to heat and sweating caused. I gather we can use led as there is little or no heat? Can anyone recommend some ip rated recessed lighting for bathrooms thanks.

A lot will depend on how much space you have left - some recessed lighting units have a depth of 150mm others 220mm. Search the internet for LED IP rated light units - you will need ones with the led driver built into the bulb itself otherwise you will need to place the led driver unit on the celotex itself.

However, your biggest problem will be the amount of light you can get from the LED units. When measured in lumens a 40w incandescent bulb gives of around 450lm - an average LED gives off around 60lms - so you are going to need to make a lot of holes in your bathroom ceiling to achieve the equivalent to a 40w bulb. And remember LED's only light the area immediately below them, which is why they really are only spotlights.

My advise would be to get a proper IP rated ceiling mounted lighting unit and fit it with either a 60w incandescent bulb or a 15w CFL bulb - that way you wont cut your self shaving and you won't be detracting from the purpose of the celotex which is to keep the heat in

aptsys · 12 Jan 2011

riveralt said:
you will need ones with the inverter built into the bulb

It's not an inverter, it'd be a constant current SMPSU. (or on most lamps just a rectifier and impedance).

riveralt said:
an average LED gives off around 60lms

Old tech maybe, but the current generation using Xlamps are more like 400lm @ 5W.

holmslaw · 12 Jan 2011

riveralt · 12 Jan 2011

aptsys said:
riveralt said:

an average LED gives off around 60lms

Click to expand...

..... but the current generation using Xlamps are more like 400lm @ 5W.

Wow - thanks for that info - so I can fit one of these in the centre of my bathroom and it will light the whole room - same as my current 40watt incandescent lamp - I'm off to the shops now.

riveralt · 12 Jan 2011

aptsys said:
riveralt said:

you will need ones with the inverter built into the bulb

Click to expand...

It's not an inverter, it'd be a constant current SMPSU. (or on most lamps just a rectifier and impedance).

Absolutely right - sorry about that

- meant to say an LED driver - edited above for clarity.

festive · 12 Jan 2011

holmslaw said:
festive said:

We have celotex flat roof and were informed recessed ceiling lights are not permitted due to heat and sweating caused.

Click to expand...

You were given good advice, the (sweating) condensation has nothing to do with the type of light fitting. It's because holes have been made through the insulation allowing warm moist air to condense on the cold surface of the roof, and this will cause the roff timbers to rot.

You need some surface mounted fittings.

Ok so i think i have 100mm celotex in the ceiling cavity although as i recollect it maybe 120 or it sits up flush to the ply and therefore the cavity is maybe 200mm, so as long as i dont penetrate maybe too deep i won't be causing rot? Or do i make sure the led unit it sealed.

I can't believe the only option is ****y surface mount lights, which will be something youd be likely to purchase from BnQ etc

festive · 12 Jan 2011

Also i believe alot of IP rated recessed units could take LED bulbs now,

check these mothers out

http://simplyled.co.uk/GU10-High-Po...5-watt-350-Lumens-50-watts-equiv_ASHQZ.aspx?0

Could i use one of those in a GU style IP rated holder like this

http://www.thelightingsuperstore.co.uk/product.asp?productid=44532

Recess depth is 100mm that may or may not cut through my celotex.

riveralt · 12 Jan 2011

festive said:
Could i use one of those in a GU style IP rated holder like this

http://www.thelightingsuperstore.co.uk/product.asp?productid=44532

Recess depth is 100mm that may or may not cut through my celotex.

Nice and toasty - fire extinquishers to the ready

You will need to read the instructions but most spotlights need a reasonable area above and around the unit - for example
http://www.mygreenlighting.co.uk/downloads/360/RO80 Downlight Instructions.pdf

If you are going to spend upward of £150 for LED lights there are other sites that cater for IP44 lights that are perhaps more pleasing to the eye such as :
http://www.ip44-lights.co.uk/

festive · 12 Jan 2011

Oh for sure thanks Riveralt, but my arguement being 90% of a traditional bulbs is given off in heat, which is where a 5watt Cree type Xlamp only gives off a fraction of this due to it's efficiency. I stand to be corrected of course.

So yes with a traditional GU50wbulb nice n toasty but not a 5w cree LED?

"5 watt LED lamps fit perfectly into Hunza MR16 luminaires. In a situation where heat is a concern, this light source option has the advantage of an extremely low running temperature with associated power consumption and long-life."

Can 5wat LED lamps be used in a flat roof cavity does anyone have any official specs for LED lamps?

riveralt · 12 Jan 2011

Since you are not going to take my word for it ring;

Kingspan Customer Service
Telephone: 01544 388 601

or download

Celotex

http://www.celotex-home-insulation.co.uk/uploads/documents/Installation_Guidelines_Datasheet.pdf

holmslaw · 12 Jan 2011

festive · 12 Jan 2011

riveralt said:
Since you are not going to take my word for it ring;

Kingspan Customer Service
Telephone: 01544 388 601

or download

Celotex

http://www.celotex-home-insulation....Installation_Guidelines_Datasheet.pdf[/QUOTE]

Oh i am, but i got the impression you was talking about IF i was to use conventional halogen lamps up there, then yes, but yeah i see the pdf (thanks for the link says as you have leaving a 200mm void)

But that's all very good for high temp lights. But i thought it's a diff ballgame with LEDS or even CFL?

Or they just saying anything electrical.

OH im just sorta playing devils advocate here, so again i appreciate your advice and input.

riveralt · 12 Jan 2011

Here is random led installation instruction set from the google lot.

http://www.lightcorporation.com/catalogue/installation/a32727_Sunbeam Mini LED.pdf

This one says 100mm others say more or less - minimum one I have seen so far is 50mm - maximum seems to be 200mm all around.

But I have found none that allow you to fit spotlights in insulation!

ban-all-sheds · 12 Jan 2011

festive said:
http://simplyled.co.uk/GU10-High-Po...5-watt-350-Lumens-50-watts-equiv_ASHQZ.aspx?0

"Please check the dimensions of this product as the bulbs are slightly longer than standard GU10 bulbs". i.e. they might not fit into IP rated bathroom luminaires.

Also, can you see the great big cooling fins on it? They may produce little heat, but LED lamps are extremely intolerant of it. Put that into a sealed luminaire surrounded by thermal insulation and it'll have a very short life.

festive said:
I can't believe the only option is **** surface mount lights, which will be something youd be likely to purchase from BnQ etc

Mmm.

The problem is that if you go somewhere cr** like B&Q, where the buyers scour the world for the nastiest cheap tat they can find, then you're only going to see nasty cheap tat.

There are alternatives to nasty cheap tat from cr** stores other than little 2" torches which are actually designed to not light rooms and which will require you to damage your ceiling and insulation and roof timbers.

Click.

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Recessed led lighting for bathroom shower area

holmslaw

holmslaw

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