Honeywell Galant House Alarm System 6160EX Keypad

Can anybody please help solve my problem?
After putting in the code the exit delay tone responds as it has always done allowing sufficient time to exit and lock doors..
Recently the entrance delay tone no longer sounds but the audible alarm activates as normal after about 10 seconds(movement picked up by sensor?) if the code is not input to the keypad after entering the house.
I have tested the system and activated all detectors all of which are positive. I have one remote radio detector which appears is working properly.
However the Testing System Instructions does say that as each detector is activated the keypads will beep twice. I only have one keypad and it only beeps once.

In short, the problem appears to be simply (I hope) that the entrance delay signal no longer works but does not stop the system operating.
Any advice from you knowledgeable people out there would really be appreciated as I'm not very up to speed with this kind of thing.

Thanks a lot.
chrisaf

sounds like a failed magnetic door contact on your entry exit door.

does the system change tone when the door is closed, (when you set the system) ?
if it don`t, as above, the contact is defunct.

if it does, then its either a programming fault, (glitch) or you have another detector that is in fault.

have you checked the system log?

what does it say?

more info please

To oasistechnical. Thanks for replying with advice so quickly. I have checked the log as you suggest for quite a way back. Apart from today when I was attempting to check all the sensors (several times) the messages displayed are mainly "unset or reset or fullset" with a couple of "AC loss" which I think were power cuts. We do tend to get short periods where power is down fairly frequently in the sticks. There is also "intruder" a number of times with various sensor locations but I am 100% certain "intruder" in this instance does not indicate an unauthorised entry. Sorry if it doesn't mean that anyway but as I said I have very limited knowledge of this animal.

As for setting the system to exit it reacts exactly as it has always done over a number of years. i.e
Input Full-Set alarm code
system beeps rapidly for about 4/5 seconds
changes to a continuous tone for up to 20 seconds then pauses for a couple of seconds before giving a final single beep by which time exit door has been locked.
If the exit door so as exit is opened during the continuous beeping period then it reverts to rapid beeping before settling back to a continuous tone again when exit door is closed.

Hope you can make sense of this explanation.

As for the magnetic contact, if that turns out to be the case, do both the wired contact attached to the frame and the other opposite on the door edge both need replacement? As I have 2 upvc doors would you advise both have the contacts replaced? I have no idea of their useful life expectancy.

Good of you to help. Thanks again.
chrisaf.

I'll agree with oasis, front door contact faulty.

Set your system in the normal way, leave by the front door, BUT, leave it open, I bet it still sets.

Replace contact.

Thank you for your further advice Europlex.
I have tried as you suggested for both front exit door and back door separately and both times the system sets when leaving them open.
I will now endeavour to obtain replacement units ASAP and fit to confirm this cures the problem.
I will come back to all you kind people and let you know the outcome.

Thanks again.

get yourself 2 x 1k ohm resistors for the contact, you will need them!

before disconnecting ANYTHING you will have to put the panel into engineer mode.

DO NOT REMOVE ANY CABLING FROM THE CONTACT UNTIL YOU HAVE DONE THIS

If you remove any of the cabling from the contact you will cause a TAMPER alert and that will have to be reset via the engineer suite

and also make a note of how the contact is wired!!

Oasis

Thank you Oasis for those timely warnings which I will heed, both disconnection and noting how contact is wired.
As yet I have not been able to source the contacts locally so it looks as though I shall have to use the internet.
I will need to find out how to put the panel in engineer mode so will look at the manual.

Once Ive got the problem (hopefully) licked I will let you know the result.

Regards.

Chrisaf

Sorry Oasis. I Hope I am not being presumptuous in asking for a bit more advice. I looked at the installation manual where it gave the default engineer code but this did not work so I contacted the installation company who refuse to let me have the engineer code they reset to on the grounds of Data Protection. They insist I must get a quote for one of their engineers to "crash" the system then presumably pay for a re-programme by someone else. It appears they are holding me to ransom on my own fairly expensive fully owned system.
For the first few years after installation I had a maintenance contract which was supposed to cover emergency call out but when I did have a problem the only engineer was tied up 4 hours away. It ended up with me driving 2 hours to fetch parts from the company, they would not bring them to me, and I fixed the problem myself with a talk through. Naturally I declined future offers of maintenance at about £100 per annum consisting of one annual check.

Without the engineer code is there any way round being able to disable the door contacts to enable their replacements or able to change the engineer code?

Any further help will be appreciated but If I'm asking too much I understand. It is good of you to give so much of your time freely up to now.

Thanks a lot.

Chrisaf.

i think using the data protection act as a get out clause is a bit odd!!

we personally would not give out our engineer code, but if a client wanted to migrate to another company we would talk to the new company and arrange a time to visit the site and `default` the code, or even if the client wanted to migrate to a new company (does not happen often) we would attend the site and `default` the code.

i gather the company you have used to install was a rather large national company??

talk to them and tell them that as you own the system outright, they have no LEGAL right to disallow you access to your owned property, and by refusing to give you the code they are in fact doing the above!!!

i had one client, many years ago who had a system(s) installed by one company, get fed up with the lack of service and did exactly what i have advised above, and it worked.

they might want to charge you a one off fee for coming out to default the code, depending on the company Aunt Daisy charge about £100.00 = VAT + for a call out to reset.

or you can contact a local SSAIB company to come and sort it out, make sure that they are familiar with Honeywell Galaxy range of kit.

if you were in my area and it was an Aunt Daisy system we could reset it without a problem, but you are out of our area.

let us know what happens

Thanks for that advice once more Oasis. I shall be taking up the cudgels with that company next Monday. I didn't realise you were in the trade so I am even more impressed that you give so freely of your time to help others.

I think quoting the Data Protection Act is a bit like using Health & Safety, a cop out smokescreen to hide behind. I CAN understand refusal to divulge their engineer's code - I might be the local burglar - but what I can't understand is why the engineer code can't be changed to one of the owner's choice at the end of the job or contract.
I did not understand either their telling me that it would benecessary to "crash" the system which implies the work of programming I paid for is destroyed and I have to pay again for the same procedure to take place. After having read your reply it seems nothing more than a scare tactic as your explanation of defaulting the system back to factory set is much more logical..
There is a procedure laid down in the manual for this but it has to take place within a certain time frame of "powering up " the system. This is a little too technical for a mere (very) amateur like me and I am aware I could do more harm that good. In this type of situation I believe in horses for courses so leave it to the experts.

Have a nice weekend. I will most certainly let you know what transpires. Thanks for the ammunition I now have whichI did not have before.

All the best.

Chrisaf

chrisaf said:

I looked at the installation manual where it gave the default engineer code but this did not work so I contacted the installation company who refuse to let me have the engineer code they reset to on the grounds of Data Protection. They insist I must get a quote for one of their engineers to "crash" the system then presumably pay for a re-programme by someone else. It appears they are holding me to ransom on my own fairly expensive fully owned system.
Chrisaf.

Click to expand...

And good for them.

Holding to ransom - NO

Would you give your bank card pin number to anyone, no, of course you wouldn't.

The engineer code in most professionally installed systems will be common to that company and their customers.
Would you want them giving out the engineer code that would give access to your system, no, of course you wouldn't.

There is a Pin of the Day system, but that is another story.

Apart from the above professional companies have rules, regulations and standards that they have to work to, one of these is that the Engineer code is not given to the end user.

Oasis should know this.

Think about it, the user thinks he'll have a play with the programming, it can't be that difficult, yes it is/can be for the novice. The Galant is a Pro system and easily messed up, even the 'know it all', I'm into IT, clever dicks mess it up.

And who has to put it right then? Still I don't really mind as it will earn me quite a bit of money.

Also, if your insurance company know you have a system, you had better tell them before messing with it yourself, something goes wrong, and they find out, no pay out.

After the rant, your company should have listened to what you asked and explained the above, forget H&S, that's rubbish, apart from being the 'get out' for most things to day.

Then they could have offered to change the code, at cost to you, with signed paperwork covering the alteration, this lets them off the hook should something go wrong.

By the way it's not necessary to 'crash' the Galant to change the code.

Sorry I went off on one but I'm strongly against Company Engineer Codes being given out as explained.



( I'm in 'the trade' as well )

As you yourself say Europlex, You certainly went off on one. You have obviously read my reply to Oasis as you mention Health & Safety. You will see I mentioned this as a further example of "get out", they did not. They used the Data Prtection Act gambit.

Obviously also you did not read my reply properly or you failed to understand it.
I stressed that I well understood why companies did not give their engineer codes away and also, that as an amateur, I do not want to tamper with things I know nothing about. In my former life I used computer based systems to a very large extent but it was usually the IT department that wa responsible for all system design and and most operational faults. In most cases it was because they thought they knew my area of expertise better than me. I think your terminology of clever dicks therefore is most inappropriate.

As I own the system there should be no bar to me accessing it if I want to, so why can't the engineer code be set to the specific individual code of the owner's choice? Not to do so seems nothing more than a ploy to keep the punter tied in.

Your analogy of giving my bank and PIN number details is as flawed as it is one sided. The alarm company already has my alarm "bank & PIN" so why would I be any less trustworthy than they are in safeguarding my own details - as I do with my real bank and PIN details? You might well say that security firms and engineers are vetted but so are MPs and police but there are always bad apples!

Another point I must raise as you have used it in reply, is that you might like to check insurance requirements a little more carefully before you throw those into the melting pot. In cases like mine the insurance companies do not recognise in the policy that a NACOS alarm is installed, maintained or not. As I live in a bungalow it is just not practicable to set up specific exclusion zones every night. I rely on normal security measures when the alarm is not armed and I therefore have no premium reduction on my policy. Thus this would not preclude any claim on my insurance whether the system was working or not.

I joined this forum to get some advice to identify a small problem and you were one of the respondents kind enough to give me a reply.
Had the code been available it would have been a simple enough job to obtain the suggested parts and change them - even a duffer like me can disconnect and reconnect some wires to the sensors and screw them back to their locations on the door frame with four screws.
Unfortunately, a tiny maintenance job costing a few pounds has escalated to a cost and effort out of all proportion to it's real worth.

You do sound a bit like a divorce lawyer. making money from other people's mistakes, and obviously you have a vested interest in the trade. That's fine as it goes, we all have to make a living, but not by using tactics that smack of slightly sharp practice. It is not an observation aimed personally at you, after all you do contribute to the forum, but I am not sure you are not more than a little biased. I cannot agree that a person's sole property should be the private province of someone else. It is for that owner to make his or her own informed decision as to how it should be used and not be denied that right.

Have a nice weekend.

Chrisaf.

Europlex said:

Apart from the above professional companies have rules, regulations and standards that they have to work to, one of these is that the Engineer code is not given to the end user.

Click to expand...

Obviously picked out the bits that suited you, the bit you left out commenting about is above.

Go and buy copies of the standards we have to work to and you'll see I'm right.

And I did say Then they could have offered to change the code, at cost to you, with signed paperwork covering the alteration, this lets them off the hook should something go wrong.

How long you been in IT then, I've been in this trade for 30yrs plus and I do know what I'm talking about here.

Have many a time had to sort out an IT clever dick alarm botch job.

chris
as i said, i think the best way is to contact the company who fitted the system and request an engineer visit.

talk with the engineer when he gets to site, and request that he changes the engineer code for one of your choice,

and if you ask him, he might even give you a door contact, depends really on the engineer !!

and yep i am in the trade, i am the company managing director, but i spend most of my time. in the field, doing what i enjoy, fitting alarms, cctv and fire systems.

Europlex is correct in what he says.

the regulations we work to are very stringent and curtailing, but hey are there, so we abide by them.
as i also said, we would not give out our engineer code, we would charge a nominal fee to return to the client and default the code, not the whole system, thats just silly!!

i have been to sites with over 500 devices on them that have been defaulted back to factory and had to spend hours locating the devices and re programming the panel. as the other company took all the circuit information with them!!

that was not a lot of fun !!

so please follow your own idea`s ir just call them, to sort the code out.

good luck and keep me posted on how you get on.

oh and by the way the Galant is a good and strong panel, just remember to change the back up battery every 4 years!!

Oasis

Don't be so myopic old chap and don't take things so personally.
I don't dispute for one moment that you have rules and regulations and that you abide by them, not very professional if you didn't!
I don't want an engineer code, I just want my own!

You see how upset you will be next time you buy a TV and are refused a remote control unless you pay extra for it.

Yes they could have "offered to change...............etc" but they did not. They just suggested crashing the system. To a layman that is quite perturbing. Turns out to be merely alarmist when you discover a little more of the facts.

Remember the days of punch card systems and main frame computers which chuntered all night in sterile dust free purpose built rooms and operators donned overalls before entering?
Makes you quite nostalgic doesn't it? Not sure you would remember such things though as you only go back to 1980ish.

Keep taking the tablets.

Chrisaf