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Ideal Classic FF250 Boiler

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ch.os

from United Kingdom

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 2
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 2:33 pm Reply with quote

I am in dispute with Caradon over the reliability of an Ideal Classic Boiler installed in 1999 and which required major repairs in 2003 requiring the installation of a new PCB, Expansion Vessel, and Air Pressure Gauge. I am taking Caradon to the Small Claims Court but need an expert witness's opinion on the design (whether dated / outdated)and (un)reliability etc of the boiler. Can anyone please help or offer any suggestions?
would the Ideal Classic FF250 have been considered somewhat outdated by 1999, when my boiler was installed, or would the time period, from first production in 1991 to installation in 1999, come within the expected design life of such a boiler? Secondly, although my Ideal Boiler was installed and serviced by CORGI registered installers, Caradon subsequently pointed out that that parts can fail prematurely due to system related problems, i.e. incorrect flow rates through the boiler, poor system balancing or lack of external controls. Could you kindly advise as to whether, in your opinion, this is a valid argument, especially in view of the fact that the boiler was installed and serviced by CORGI registered installers? Also it would be helpful to have your comments as to whether it would have been likely that any, or a combination, of the problems advanced by Caradon would have led to the extensive need for the replacement of major components, i.e. the PCB, Expansion Vessel, and Air Pressure Switch, or is it more likely that the problems with the boiler were, on the balance of probability, due to failure of component parts? With grateful thanks for any further comments you may be able to offer. Charles

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BDL

from United Kingdom

Joined: 14 Oct 2003
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Location: Kent,
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 3:47 pm Reply with quote

The Ideal Classic is probably the most reliable trouble free boiler I have ever worked on.
I am not aware of any inherent design/manufacture problems with this range.

The pcb is not problematic, the expansion vessel is common among alot of other manufacturers and reliable. The air pressure is ditto as above.

Was your system flushed correctly? what were the temperature differentials accross the flow and return?

What does your Benchmark log book say with the above? (If fitted after Oct.1999.
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B.O.B DOLE

from United Kingdom

Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 1036
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 4:57 pm Reply with quote

?????


Last edited by B.O.B DOLE on Wed May 25, 2005 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total
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doitall

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 4:58 pm Reply with quote

Hate to say it but the Classic was the last reliable Ideal ever produced. You are going to need some convincing technical proof, from an expert consultant engineer, plus a complete history of complaints, how the problems was sorted and if within a reasonable time, a written documentation from day 1. etc.

Sale of goods act covers all sorts of issues if these have been honoured with repair/ replacment according to the terms and conditions, and remember your gripe is with the installer not the producer, in the same situation the shop is responsible for the quality of goods sold, they in turn sort the manufacturers out.

The other problem is being Corgi registered is not a guarantee of quality, only that the guy/gal should know what their doing, BG for example only do a safety check not a service which some boilers do need.

What do Idea have to say, although you shouldn't be pre-discussing a Court case.
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doitall

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 4:59 pm Reply with quote

B.O.B DOLE wrote:
if it was fitted in 1999 it is now 2005 which is 16 years ago you say that you had parts fitted in 2003 which would be 14 years how long do you expect your boiler to run free from faults get a life mate.you will be laughft out of court how old is your car will you be taking them to court when it breaks down


Back to skool methinks m8 icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif
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B.O.B DOLE

from United Kingdom

Joined: 16 May 2005
Posts: 1036
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 5:02 pm Reply with quote

doitall wrote:
B.O.B DOLE wrote:
if it was fitted in 1999 it is now 2005 which is 16 years ago you say that you had parts fitted in 2003 which would be 14 years how long do you expect your boiler to run free from faults get a life mate.you will be laughft out of court how old is your car will you be taking them to court when it breaks down


Back to skool methinks m8 icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif


yes would you loke to come to
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ollski

from United Kingdom

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Location: Birmingham,
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 5:17 pm Reply with quote

Yes, very reliable boiler and pretty much trouble free....mostly only replace fans on these, but thats just normal wear and tear. Did all those parts need replacing at the same time?. I can tell you that each one of those parts you list carries a 52 week warranty and wheather it's fair or not I can't see how you can have any recourse other than what you may get from the goodwill of the manufacturer.
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just-thinking

from Netherlands

Joined: 01 Jan 2005
Posts: 96
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 9:17 pm Reply with quote

classic by name and classic by nature.

at least you got a decent boiler which can be repaired easily.

expansion vessel and system inhibitor should be checked on a annual basis.ie when boiler is serviced.sounds like your system has poor water quality.on this boiler pressure guage capillary will get blocked and expansion vessel will fail sooner than usual if cr-p water in it

i only find pcbs fail on these boilers early if external electrics ane cr-p and people letting electric kettles boil away under the boiler as steam will damage pcbs.

you probaly have a rover car as well.well cant help you there,
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Agile

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 10:22 pm Reply with quote

Well you have had a selection of comments above and to precis then the boiler has a reputation for being pretty simple and one of the most reliable boilers.

The pcb failure may have been just bad luck or caused by an incorrect external connection. We dont even stock them because they are so reliable!

The pressure gauge and expansion vessel are most likely to have failed due to poor or no water treatment by the installer.

You dont say if these problems have been remedied at your cost or free. If the latter I dont see what claim you would have.

I dont have consultants liability insurance but you will find people listed on the IPHE web site who do. They will probably charge you 300 to 600 to visit and give you their professional opinion.

My thoughts are that you would be wasting your time taking action against Ideal because this is a very reliable boiler by reputation and any error is likely to be the installers. The warranty period is only 12 months from installation after that you are on your own which is why you should choose a reliable properly qualified installer.

Tony Glazier
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ChrisR

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 11:56 pm Reply with quote

The expansion vessel is NOT part of the boiler.
Two faults in 6 years, neither expensive compared with other boilers, isn't particularly bad.
Just don't ever buy a combi.
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namsag

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 7:18 am Reply with quote

If repairs where carried out in 2003 why are you thinkin off takin them to court 2 years later. The 3 parts are ones that can pack up at anytime on any make of boiler, Although as said already the classicis must be about the most reliable boiler out there. Also it never fails to amaze me how fellow engineers on this site jump in and say it must be installer fault without being able to confirm this. I wonder how they would deal with an irate customer saying you have not fitted this appliance right because some guy on the internet says so
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DP

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 8:01 am Reply with quote

How do we know the parts that were replaced were indeed faulty and needed to be replaced. In my travels I come across many boilers that have been 'serviced' but havent been, parts changed without reason (changed part put back in the boiler for it to function without a hitch) and PCBs replaced as this component (by many) is thought to be least reliable. I 'rescued' a VCW 242 from a skip which (initial inspection shows) has a new pump, gas valve, water section and diverter in it. It also has a blue sticker on the casing. Will be fitting these parts in my VCW as and when required.

-
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namsag

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 5:44 pm Reply with quote

Gets better the guy has not only not installed it right he has also fitted parts it never needed it`s a wonder he is in business at all. As said try putting shoe on other foot and see how you would react to your professionalism being called into question by someone who does not have first hand knowledge of job or faults that occured .
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bripl

from United Kingdom

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 5:56 pm Reply with quote

speculation not accusation
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PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN

from Western Sahara

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 6:00 pm Reply with quote

Sorry to sound thick but how old actually is the boiler ?
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