Telephone extension uncertainty

Dodgemonkey · 18 Feb 2011

Hi to the experts on here,
I've read through quite a lot of the Forum pages regarding extensions, but I'm daft and can't get my head around what is the best way to do this.
I was asked by an elderly neighbour to put in another extension so that, effectively, she would then have 3 points to connect a telephone to (this is becoming quite necessary now). Easy enough, or so I thought. The socket that receives the outside/incoming telephone cable from a nearby telegraph pole has a black "pair", connected to screw-in securing terminals. These are not marked "A" or "B" but are something like 2 and 5 terminals instead.
The faceplate of this box has an adaptor plugged into it, which itself has two jack plug sockets. These two plugs serve two existing telephone lines, but how do I connect a third line? Can I purchase an adaptor which has three outlet sockets?
Thanks if anyone can steer me in the right direction.

Mike

OwainDIYer · 18 Feb 2011

3 and 4 way adapters here

Dodgemonkey · 18 Feb 2011

Thanks a lot OwainDIYer. There's no modem or PC attached to any of this, so it's just the third telephone. Is there any signal degradation with three phones running from the main box?

Mike

TonyW2 · 19 Feb 2011

If just for speach and not broadband, then the wires will be OK.
It may be easier to use an extension adapter in one of the existing extensions, (in a daisy chain style) to save having to run everything from the one point.
It may also be as easy and tidier to use extension sockets and wire these into the master. This eliminates the adapters.
If you arre doing it, use proper phone cable.

Dodgemonkey · 19 Feb 2011

Thanks Tony, I think the master box must be quite old because, from what I've read on this Forum, the incoming cable is a black "pair". Inside the master box the pair separate to terminal 2 and terminal 5. One adapter plugged into the front plate, and this adapter had two female jack inserts. So I wondered how I was going to get another line set up from it all. As I am not allowed to interfere with any internal connections within the master box itself, the only solution so far is the triple adapter.
You say that it can be tidied further by using extension sockets wired into the master, but am I allowed to do that, and if so, how?
BTW, the daisy chain set up is not suitable in this particular case.

OwainDIYer · 19 Feb 2011

You are not allowed to wire into the back of the master.

You could use a plug and cable to a junction box and then run the extensions from there.

digdilem · 19 Feb 2011

Just to take you down an entirely different thought process - multi-handset DECT phones are very cheap now. I've just bought a set of four panasonics for £70. One plugs into a phone socket, the rest just need a power point. Very very useful for the elderly as they can plug them in where they need them.

However - don't forget to plan for a power cut, and that means having at least one corded phone plugged in somewhere.

Dodgemonkey · 19 Feb 2011

OwainDIYer said:
You are not allowed to wire into the back of the master.

You could use a plug and cable to a junction box and then run the extensions from there.

Thanks fellas. OwainDIYer, I think I'll proceed with a triple from the master as was first suggested. Digdilem, I understand, thanks. Sounds a good idea, but I'm not sure my neighbour may be able to cope with the technology, as daft as that sounds.
The other two phones are 1. in the kitchen/diner and 2. in a bedroom. Plus there's a separate plug socket into an extension line which has a bell on it to aid being heard when they're phone rings.
They must be close to exceeding the REN limit - I presume the bell on its own must count as "1" .

TicklyT · 20 Feb 2011

OwainDIYer said:
You are not allowed to wire into the back of the master....

Not strictly true...

Older installations used a 'Master' socket (typically a LJU2/1A or 3/1A), where there's no demarcation point defining the end of the suppliers' responsibility. You could add your own wiring to these installations, but that created a maintenance nightmare for service providers, so these installations are slowly being upgraded.

The demarcation problem led to the introduction of the 2-part NTE5, where the demarcation point is the plug and socket connecting the two halves together. The service provider is responsible for all the wiring on the backplate, and the customer is free to connect any of their wiring to the terminals on the back of the front plate.

Dodgemonkey · 20 Feb 2011

Very interesting to note, ta for that. I'm hopefully popping around to my neighbour's shortly. I'll get a photo of the master box and bung it on here. If the old "pair" were wired into an "A" and a "B" screw terminal, I would have been initially a little clearer in my plan. But, the pair are connected to what appears to be terminal 2 (one side) and 5 (the other side) of 6 connectors so I thought about adding my extension phone wire blue/white trace and white/blue trace to those two. It was obvious that this was going to be wrong because:
1. The extension line wires were tiny in gauge compared to the incoming pair. It didn't seem right to couple them into the same terminals;
2. There are capacitors etc in front of the terminal connectors, and these clearly controlled the output to the front plate outlet jack, which my extension wiring would have bypassed.
Grateful to all of you whom have replied so far, it really is a big help.

Alarm · 20 Feb 2011

Think about it they changed from A & B to 2 & 5.

So A=5 B=2, Same pair remember doing the same thing.
Suprised no one has told you this.

TonyW2 · 20 Feb 2011

You can open an old master connector.
(In theory , you should not tamper with the incoming cable connections A&B, but the only reason for this regulation is to prevent homeowners managing to connect any 240v mains wires to the telephone service wires)
The two incoming wires A&B, are connected to 2&5 on the (first master}phone socket. From those a further cable can be connected into 2&5 on the next socket. This can be repeated along a chain or if more convenient a socket connection will accept 3 wires, enabling two extensions to continue from any one socket.
Maximum of 4 phones on any one incoming phone line.
If using modern phones, do not bother with connecting connection3 (bell wire) or 4(unused spare wire)
There would be an advantage in making the very first socket an NTE5 and then the cable from the master connection box would just need cutting and the A&B wires connecting into the back half of the NTE5. That would comply fully with regulations.

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Telephone extension uncertainty

Alarm

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